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  1. #61
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    merc16 tipped me off to this post. Iím fairly certain itís just a carbon overlay on a steel tank


    https://www.instagram.com/p/B5Pk9wLl...=1pum0690xbsta
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  2. #62
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Hertfordshire, UK

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Arash

    That does't look like carbon to me . It might be a ZRX tank that's been Hydro Dipped and then lacquered over.

    Only a guess !

    .
    .

    I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not...


    .

  3. #63
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Youíre right!
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  4. #64
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    It seems to me that the weave pattern should go the other way with that hydro dipped tank.
    Mike
    #10152

  5. #65
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Who knows. I thought it was a carbon wrap but either way itís not worthy of hijacking Peterís great thread. Sorry!

    Back to the Peter show...

    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  6. #66
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    excellent Job Peter! I was wondering about the radius at the bottom of the tank, this looks like a sound solution! Keep up the good work!

  7. #67
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Ok, skip the magenta and KITTY!!

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    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  8. #68
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by KWICK View Post
    Ok, skip the magenta and KITTY!!

    Attachment 321802

    Whell I don't smoke so the ciggarette pocket will have to go ; but the beverage pocket....now that's an idea...
    on the other hand , I drive full face helmet so it would only be usefull for harley riders...

    "Who knows. I thought it was a carbon wrap but either way itís not worthy of hijacking Peterís great thread. Sorry!

    Back to the Peter show..."

    Now listen here Arash....I would NEVER stick something on my bike that LOOKS like carbon..
    same as some of you here never would put anything on that LOOKS like titanium...(yes yes ; you know who you are...)

    Back to topick ...

    Did some baby-steps improvements this last days , unlike the houers it takes for doing so ..

    the clearance withy the UPSD forks mounted was a little to close for comfort...

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    so the whole front end of the tank had to be reshaped...

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    while I was at it , I decided to smooth out the whole tank , some nicks and small bashes where still in there from the previous owner's accident
    you must reall y feel the top side of the tank (from the gas cap downworths) It is so bumpy OEM ..but you cannot see it , youre fingertips however tell a whole different story..
    So i putted some body filler on top (greenish-yellow part) to be sanded down until smooth as a baby's bottom..

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    smooth out those ugly weld joints atthe bottom...(see in comparison with oem tank..)

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    after sanding sprayed the tank completely in body filler , not completely satisfied as yet , but it is for 90% ok , I will smooth out more when I start to make a mold from the top side
    This is how the tank will look in big lines...

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    Now I can concentrate on the design of the underside..
    It's function over form here as it not will be seen , but I do have to make the flanges as big as possible to get a nice enough overlay ...
    also be aware that no negative angles or bends are to be" shaped inn " as the whole of the bottom tank I would like to make in one single mold..
    the oem tank is also one single stampd' plate (thow be it with extra "bits" welded on..) so This should work for me also in a single mold design

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    it's a dirty job , but someone has to do it..;-)

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    So this would be the design of the underside
    next to do is spray with body filler and sand down all nicks , pinholes and scratches. Then first thing to do is make a sort of template of the 2 "ears" inside the tank
    that hold the rubbers on the frame for positioning the tank

    Later

    Peter

  9. #69
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Incredible work Peter!!

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  10. #70
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Awesome! This is something else.
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  11. #71
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, IN

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Interesting watching how this project is moving along. Very nice, looking forward to seeing how this looks at completion.

  12. #72
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    canada

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    you are doing great work peter !. the tank looks like it is coming along very nicely. the look of the tank without the weld flanges is fantastic!

  13. #73
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobzrx1200cafe View Post
    you are doing great work peter !. the tank looks like it is coming along very nicely. the look of the tank without the weld flanges is fantastic!
    Thanx for the support guys..

    Indeed Jacob , a much more slicker look , and it will actually hold more fuel aswell..a win/win situation..;-)

    Peter

  14. #74
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    GERMAN

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    that will be great
    when in the night your light in the bend is not enough , i can not help !
    you must drive slower say the dealer .

  15. #75
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    near Hamburg, Germany

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Please Peter have mercy. When you are ready for production I beg you to not post that up here but send the pics and information by PM to every member except me.

    Else, I will be tempted to buy one regardless of me being poor.

    Awesome project and from what I saw coming out of your shop so far, I am sure it will turn out great.
    Godspeed Jaco. You're missed down here mate.

    Member number # 10085 ----------- BOTM July 2018 ----------- Restoring the old Gipsy

  16. #76
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by Black-ZRX View Post
    Please Peter have mercy. When you are ready for production I beg you to not post that up here but send the pics and information by PM to every member except me.

    Else, I will be tempted to buy one regardless of me being poor.

    Awesome project and from what I saw coming out of your shop so far, I am sure it will turn out great.
    Steady on Heino!!
    Still not sure if it is possible..., for the same money I just ruined a perfectly good tank and about 2 months of production time...
    but we live and learn eh..
    and if it would be a succes....well see it as a character test... ;-)

    Peter

  17. #77
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    West Coast of Scotland

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Peter how many hours do you have in it so far? Also do you have an autoclave for the bake?
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.

    BOTM JUNE 2018 THE VANILLA GORILLA

  18. #78
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMamba View Post
    Peter how many hours do you have in it so far? Also do you have an autoclave for the bake?
    Hello GM
    Well , I don't really count the hours , I would get depressed...
    As long as I enjoy this" new project tinghy's" it's fine by me , you see , I have no real challenges at work , so I do this as a hobby
    to get my brains from deteriating hahahahaÖ..No seroiusly , First of all I want one for myself(and other members did gently push me into developing one..;-)) , and as nobody makes them ..well I took up the glove..
    when I make the same stuff for others then I have to do a cost study with materials and labour hoursÖ.nobody works for free..
    as for the autoclave , I tink in the beginning of my thread I explaned that a autoclave is not necessary as long you dont make engine parts(high temperature curing)
    I would also need to have pre preg carbon and tis has to be kept in a freezer and even then it has only a life span of about 6 months , al in all it would be much more expencive for me as a hobbyist..
    I do use however vacuumbag technologie and have ways of curing my carbon with a heatsource deploid from the outside ,so the effect comes close to a
    autoclave , as all it does is pull the chambre vacuum and apply heat , thow be it much higher temp and more controlled enviroment..
    these are some examples..
    for this week I have no more progress as other commitments prohibit me from garage workÖ(I do like to believe tat I have wat's left of a social life that needs some attention to..lol)


    Peter
    Attached Images      

  19. #79
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    West Coast of Scotland

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Ah ok yes was wondering what method you were using and was wondering sorry I didnít read better. I work a lot with composite components for the aviation industry and know how much time and patience into this build Iím sure it will look beautiful in the end and all the itchy forearms will be worth it
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.

    BOTM JUNE 2018 THE VANILLA GORILLA

  20. #80
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Yep GM , the itchy forearms are dead giveaway that you work with carbon... In wintertime not so much as warm sweaters are worn in my garage now
    But I do need to shower every time I've worked with carbon..

    A little update now as I've been away for the weekend and just had 2 evening's to make progress
    I first had to make a template regarding the 2 mounting "ears" that hold the tank on the frame

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    First I made some sort of barrier with silicone to determen the shape of the template(just the minimum of shape I need to position it right afterwards on the carbon underplate)
    Also it stops the gelcoat and polyster resin of running and flowing out on other parts of the tank that you have to scrape off with a chizzle afterwards..

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    the tiny slits I filled with childs play clay , cos there the gel coat can run in and make it harder to rermove the template afterwards
    half done here to show them slits ,the clay can easely be removed afterwards as it does not react(stick) with gelcoat or resin

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    now elbow grease time...you have the wax and polish 5(!) times the area you want to gelcoat otherwise the gelcoat will stick to the putty or prototype and you will destroy the part
    trying to dismantel it (on a mold that has allready been used 3 times will do , but on a new part 5 times..)

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    after this an special release agent needs to applyed with a soft sponge and left to dry
    this is really neat stuff it can withstand every kind of chemical , and disolves in water..
    It leaves a thin film of release agent between the wax and gelcoat so when you have a complicated part , you can spray some water in a slit you made
    so the film disolves and retraction is far more easy (on big molds even a water nozzle is polyesterd in to apply water pressure to ease release)

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    Now the part is ready for gelcoating
    this is a thick layer of special polyester resin that is needed so the gel can take on the precise form of the part as if you would use fiberglas straight away
    you would have lots of airpockets and a very rough surface

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    for best results 2 layers need to be applied(the first layer needs to be dry or at least sticky dry before second layer)

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    So now it's been glasfiberd and the edges had to been taped to get them following the contours of the shoulders of the tank
    glassfibres have the tendancy to return to there original shape (in this case glass mats) when hardening out , so tight and sharp corners
    are always a challenge , on inside corners you can overcome by putting in thicker layers of gelcoat or even filling up till a nice big radius with polyester putty.

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    all dryed up after a night of curing

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    so this is how the template looks after removing and doing some polishing up

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    So now these negative forms will be used to locate and shape the carbon ears needed on the carbon underplate of the tank..

    next up is preparing the underside in more ore less the same way for making a mold of the entire bottom plate of the tank..
    later

    Peter

  21. #81
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    I'm excited to announce that Peter now has his own section in our Marketplace - ZRX parts & accessories made by ZRXOA members forum.

    Watch this space for Peter's updates on carbon fiber and composite ZRX products being offered for sale: http://www.zrxoa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?454-peter

    Thank you Peter!
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  22. #82
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Hertfordshire, UK

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by AV80R View Post
    I'm excited to announce that Peter now has his own section in our Marketplace - ZRX parts & accessories made by ZRXOA members forum.

    :
    Subscribed follower


    .
    .

    I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not...


    .

  23. #83
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    And I thought building acoustic guitars from scratch was time consuming and fiddly.Must respect to you good sir.Im sure even with all the photos and write up few people will appreciate the time and effort this project will take.Again well done.

  24. #84
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Time for a little update
    last week and weekend I finally got the mold ready regarding the bottom underplate of the tank
    This is , on a technical perspective , the most important part of the tank..
    It holds the mounting points for the frame and it's where the fuel gage and petcock are attached to..

    here we go...

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    this is the basic shape I wanted for maximum overlapping on the flanges , not a easy job
    as the frame comes real close at some points to the tank..
    after a great deal of measuring , shaping , test fitting , I sprayed the tank glossy to see if there where no cracks or negative corners .
    It also helps having a glossy finish to later release the mold as wax tends to get apsorbed on a base coat , not so much on a glossy coat where it stayes on surface as it should.

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    The tank had still some "metal fabrication" features that I have no need for , and are even an obstacle on a carbon tank
    the ribs are pressed in the bottom plate to give the steel more rigidity , I have other methods for stiffining carbon , so they are clay putty'd out..

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    Also the fuel gage plate is welded on with a large niche underneath..if not filled up with clay , this would fill with gelcoat and the mold would never release again...

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    job done

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    Decided not to grind off the "ears" of the tank , as I would like to recuperate the tank(you never kwow if this is going to be big failiure) , and welding them back on is something I cannot do myself.
    I'm gonna polyester around the ears , and hope there is enough flex in the mold to pull the mold over the ears when hardend
    so all edges are again delimeted , this time with my hot glue gun , as I had a hell of job removing the black tech7 silicone I used last time...

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    protect the outside cos polyester will be smeared on , like it or not..

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    my weapons of choise..always use 2 sorts of fiberglas , one for strenght , the other for stifness.

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    job done

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    I incorperated a waterhose connector for easyer mold release ast it is a bit of a big and challenging shape to get out of the tank prototype

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    The mold went relativly easy out of the tank..I did however layed less layers of glassfibre on the middle of the tank to get enough flex to bypass the ears of the tank ..(this was strenghtend up when the mold was out of the tank)
    The holes left by the ears and tank breather where then filled up with glassfibre and gelcoated , sanded and polished.

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    As I had alu plates fitted on the oem tank holes (fuel gage and petcock) the thickness was incorperated into the mold...so the same thickness has to be added to the mold as it was retracted the first time...
    This gives me the extra advantage of getting the mounting surface extra "flat" each time I take a copy..

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    so this is how the inside of a tank looks..

    next up is making the molds on the outside , not so much a challinge on fitting etc..but it has te be more optical perfect

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    Also need some time to grow some skin and fingernails back on my hands..
    Later

    Peter

  25. #85
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    near Hamburg, Germany

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

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    Godspeed Jaco. You're missed down here mate.

    Member number # 10085 ----------- BOTM July 2018 ----------- Restoring the old Gipsy

  26. #86
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Great update and pics
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  27. #87
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    This is really fun to follow. Great work.
    Mike
    #10152

  28. #88
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    great work Peter!

  29. #89
    Calamity Gil
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Niagara Falls, USA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    I had no idea on how to fab anything using C/F. This is a great thread providing detailed pictures and narration. Thanks Peter, this is now one of my favorites.
    ZRXOA membr #8704
    "It is not the strong but the responsive that survive."

    BOTM Feb '13

  30. #90
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    The neat part is Peter can share all these secrets with us knowing no one will even attempt to copy him.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.


 

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