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  1. #1
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Carbon Fuel tank build

    Well , this has been tinkering in the back of my mind from day1...
    But I was quite occupied with making other molds and parts for my project bike.., wel this was the original plan
    but it turned out this bike had a" world wide cult status " that was beond my grasp...
    So my personal project got side tracked in favour off making "special carbon and polyester parts" for fellow ZRX owners worldwide..
    This gives me offcourse the funds to buy me the mods I can't do myself and I can get my garage "tooled up" for better craftmanship...;-)
    So the only thing I haven't got a mold from at the moment was offcourse the fuel tank..
    With all my major projects from members and non-members done , I just a have a few single parts that are nearly finished, so at the moment I got some time
    on my hands..
    So , first toughts....is it rocket sience...well no , but not to simple also , Is it a big job..Hell yeah , The mold is at least made of 4 parts , and maybe some extra templates
    for positioning the mounting points and other stuff that is welded or drilled in the tank ...
    Then I have to figure out a way for a good "marriage" to mount the 2 halves together as TOTAL leakproof is my nr 1 concern..
    So I did a little study on carbon tanks and got my friends duc 996 corse race tank as a building reference..
    This tank has been used for track time and has been "nocked about" on more then one occasion..(it has been resprayed more then once also as you will see..)
    This tank still holds its fuel without leakage after all this years of abuse, so this means they must have done a good job back in the days at the corse factory ...
    The first thing that I noticed is the shear size off this ZRX tank , I mean this thing is HUGE..just look at the comparison in size with the 996 tank..

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    Other suprise...this ZRX tank is no heavyweight...4.8 kg (fully dismanteld)compared to the 2.13 kg 996 carbon tank wich near halve the size off the zrx....so this means I have my work cut out then to stay under the OEM weight..
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    So my first work is to begin making the mold on the tank..
    first block off all the holes with some nice flat plates(after oiling the inside offcourse) , so no dust , paint stripper or whatever products I use can conterminate the inside off the tank..
    The flatness of the plates is also important , for this will be the inside of the mold and all future O-rings and gaskets will be sealed against this surface.
    second job will be stripping the paint off the outside of the tank as you will see , the tank is slightly dented here and there(its from my project ZRX -s bike wich was an accidented bike)
    and also this model has stickers underneath the clear coat wich are not fully flush , so making a mold with stickering "sticking out" will have the same recess in my mold
    and all future tanks will have that "fault' wich is no big deal when making a glassfibre tank but not so if making carbon as you can not "putty" out the height differance.
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    dented
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    stickering
    , So hopefully the weather stays mild( cos my garage's not heated) and I can get some progress on this project.
    Till later..
    cheers
    Peter
    Last edited by peter; 11-06-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #2
    The Mod Father
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lisburn.,Northern Ireland

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Fantastic project Peter.!!

    Respect for taking on the challenge of this.

    Gonna be checking in on this and eagerly looking for progress updates.!

    Winter nights now drawing in and this will be great viewing over a coffee and chocolate biscuit.!

    BG.
    "A change in behaviour begins when Jesus changes our heart "

    Carina Wells (Mum)
    RIP.

    April 2017 BOTM~2017 BOTY
    August 2019 BOTM..
    #10080

  3. #3
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    PA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Subscribed, Iím not sure if compatibility issues but what if you used the steel bottom with overflow and vent lines? Just a thought.
    May the dust of your carriage wheels blind the eyes of your foes.

  4. #4
    2009 Hooligan of the year
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Funny this thread popped up. Just last week I was having thoughts of an all CF bodywork ZRX. Everything is currently available to accomplish that, except a tank.

    Subscribed!

  5. #5
    Stuffed Up
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Brisbane QLD, Australia

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Surprised that the tank doesnít weight a tonne! Everything else on the ZRX does!

    Great project, I canít weight to see the finished item. I am sure it will be amazing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    #10079

    2007 - Ixil SlipOn Exhaust, BW Headers, NoFlo's, Uni Pods, +4 ELS Advancer, FP Jetting

  6. #6
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Greece

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Looking forward but too fragile for street use, normally carbon explodes when hit the road unlike alluminum or steel

  7. #7
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Subscribed to see your work Peter
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  8. #8
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Subscribed, I’m not sure if compatibility issues but what if you used the steel bottom with overflow and vent lines? Just a thought.


    No , only a full carbon item will do.... ;-)
    I will simplify the design with a fully closed (fuel and air tight) gas cap
    and a airvent/tank valve will be intergrated as most (race)carbon tanks have, even the ZRX alu beaten tank you can find on webike
    If you make a fully closed gas cap , there is no need for a extra rain/water drainage as with OEM design aswell..
    here are some examples
    Attached Images    

  9. #9
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by zrx24 View Post
    Funny this thread popped up. Just last week I was having thoughts of an all CF bodywork ZRX. Everything is currently available to accomplish that, except a tank.

    Subscribed!
    That's right!!!
    Everytime I see as nice compton(for example) bike I say...very nice..but something missing..

    Peter
    Last edited by peter; 11-06-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  10. #10
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Looking forward but too fragile for street use, normally carbon explodes when hit the road unlike alluminum or steel
    If so ...why would this be more dangerous on the street then on track??
    Carbon just doesn't explode..on the contrary , when skidded on the ground it gives NO sparks ; metal ones do...
    you just have to make sure that the tank is well lined with kevlar strips and such so if skidded the wear is minimal especially on the edges..
    carbon tanks (as you can see on OLD you tube films) split open when not good constructed so fuel poors out on the hot exhaust..that's all
    but then it's racing and every gram counts..I'm sure the second batch got an extra layer of carbon , once this happend..
    Last edited by peter; 11-06-2019 at 09:37 AM.

  11. #11
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Yup, I published the 10 pound weight probably 18 years ago. The ZRX tank is light.
    You have your work cut out for you.
    I know it will be beautiful!

    Subscribed.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    Or: www.PayPal.me/KWICK
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  12. #12
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    PA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by peter View Post
    Subscribed, Iím not sure if compatibility issues but what if you used the steel bottom with overflow and vent lines? Just a thought.


    No , only a full carbon item will do.... ;-)
    I will simplify the design with a fully closed (fuel and air tight) gas cap
    and a airvent/tank valve will be intergrated as most (race)carbon tanks have, even the ZRX alu beaten tank you can find on webike
    If you make a fully closed gas cap , there is no need for a extra rain/water drainage as with OEM design aswell..
    here are some examples
    Understand and I can appreciate the focus.
    May the dust of your carriage wheels blind the eyes of your foes.

  13. #13
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    A friend of mine makes the KTM check valve the factory uses in it's tank vent hoses.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    Or: www.PayPal.me/KWICK
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  14. #14
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Carbon Fuel tank build

    Ok, I canít believe no one has said it yet but...





































    DIBS!!!

    Your composites are stunning Peter. Once you figure this out, I want a revision 2 or 3 tank in my hands for sure.

    I want to do a full carbon bike with 2005 stripes and a few key lime green highlights, but for the most part just gloss CF.
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  15. #15
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Lakewood, CO

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by peter View Post
    If so ...why would this be more dangerous on the street then on track??
    Carbon just doesn't explode..on the contrary , when skidded on the ground it gives NO sparks ; metal ones do...
    you just have to make sure that the tank is well lined with kevlar strips and such so if skidded the wear is minimal especially on the edges..
    carbon tanks (as you can see on OLD you tube films) split open when not good constructed so fuel poors out on the hot exhaust..that's all
    but then it's racing and every gram counts..I'm sure the second batch got an extra layer of carbon , once this happend..
    I think he meant explodes as opposed to denting up when it makes impact.

  16. #16
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    I will pay extra for one that explodes
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  17. #17
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by KWICK View Post
    A friend of mine makes the KTM check valve the factory uses in it's tank vent hoses.
    Nice pete...does he have a website or so?
    I allready orderd one like this , but just for lookig into it...this model has a steel ball shutoff valve , for when the tank tumble's upside down , the fuel cannot escape..
    this model has to be mountend inside the tank with just a tube to fix on it..
    Attached Images  

  18. #18
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Arash!!!
    you the man..lol
    but you are allready second in line , a member here is twisting my arm for months now to get me started on a tank... lol
    But I will not sell the bear 's hide before it's been shot as we say....
    Hope I can rise to the occasion that's all, I know the barr is set high.....

    Peter

  19. #19
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Iím no dummy, I want version 2.0 anyways

    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  20. #20
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Greensboro NC

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Also subscribed. This should be pretty neat.
    1999 ZRX1100
    Few odds and ends:


    Look at the universe. The stars keep their order. The trees and plants grow upwards without exception the waters flow. Be like this. -Lao Tzu

  21. #21
    Two wheeled FREAK
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NY - Between thought and expression...

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Over the years I have installed several carbon fuel tanks - and the #1 problem is fuel compatibility. I would strongly recommend using a bladder of some sort if possible - probably very expensive and of course heavy. The carbon kevlar fuel cells in the race cars I worked on all had bladders and foam as well. Without a bladder, the ethanol and other chemicals in the fuel will eat away at the inside of the cell. Initially the fuel pick up or pump will get clogged, and eventually it will get to the carbs or injectors. So - whatever you can do to guard against the ethanol fuel, the better. There may be resins available now that are more chemical resistant? I don't know. Just be aware that here in the US ethanol is almost everywhere...

    V-Twin ducati - engine and frame are narrower - hence the size of the tank. That has always been an advantage of V-twin and V-Four designs vs a transverse inline 4 cylinder like the ZRX / ZX / CBR / YZF / GSX-R etc. In the old days the frame used to go around the outside of the engine. Now they hang the engine below the frame - makes it just a bit narrower. Size and aerodynamics also... plus position of fuel relative to roll center etc.

    PM me for great prices on ÷hlins shocks and forks!
    ZRX-1200 - 2001 #2 - 45,500 miles and counting
    Highly opinionated and somewhat twisted, or so I've been told.

    http://www.orientexpress.com + http://www.hudsonvalleymotorcycles.com - places where I used to work...

  22. #22
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve516 View Post
    Over the years I have installed several carbon fuel tanks - and the #1 problem is fuel compatibility. I would strongly recommend using a bladder of some sort if possible - probably very expensive and of course heavy. The carbon kevlar fuel cells in the race cars I worked on all had bladders and foam as well. Without a bladder, the ethanol and other chemicals in the fuel will eat away at the inside of the cell. Initially the fuel pick up or pump will get clogged, and eventually it will get to the carbs or injectors. So - whatever you can do to guard against the ethanol fuel, the better. There may be resins available now that are more chemical resistant? I don't know. Just be aware that here in the US ethanol is almost everywhere...

    V-Twin ducati - engine and frame are narrower - hence the size of the tank. That has always been an advantage of V-twin and V-Four designs vs a transverse inline 4 cylinder like the ZRX / ZX / CBR / YZF / GSX-R etc. In the old days the frame used to go around the outside of the engine. Now they hang the engine below the frame - makes it just a bit narrower. Size and aerodynamics also... plus position of fuel relative to roll center etc.
    As I did my homework before I jumped in Steve.., my carbon dealer (yep it's a drug..;-) told me the newest tank liner is vynilester basedÖ
    this is the only liner that can stand ethanol fuel.
    It used to be epoxy based , and still is good if you are certain no ethanol is mixed in the fuel.., .
    So thanx for the input Steve it is a point of intersted that surely had my full attention when brain storming the project

    Peter

  23. #23
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    cincinnati

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    So how much is this going to cost .....






















    O wait ... I forgot where I was .. Money is no object for the ZRX crowd .....


    Carry on
    01 ZRX 1200 green
    00 ZRX 1100 black
    12 C14 connie red
    2003 KLX 400
    2004 CRF100
    2008 CRF100
    2016 300 Ninja
    2017 Z125 Pro
    " Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars"

    " That which you manifest is before you " Enzo

    ZRXOA# 8746

  24. #24
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by steiny View Post
    So how much is this going to cost .....






















    O wait ... I forgot where I was .. Money is no object for the ZRX crowd .....


    Carry on
    If you have to ask...well, you know the rest.
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s

  25. #25
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    canada

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    peter, as per usual your project has spiked the zrx crowds interest, as it should. your work is impeccable and flawless, nothing short of perfection to say the least. i often find myself looking over the peaces i have from you in search of a flaw to no prevail. if your tank is anywhere near the quality of every other peace you have made it will no doubt be something of a conversation peace. I cant wait to get my tank from you!

    subscribed

  26. #26
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Iím looking forward to seeing this.
    Just today I was thinking how cool it would be to have an all carbon bike with a lime, white and blue stripe with some other Kawi specific accents.

    Jacob, I blame you!!!
    Mike
    #10152

  27. #27
    Stuffed Up
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Brisbane QLD, Australia

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobzrx1200cafe View Post
    peter, as per usual your project has spiked the zrx crowds interest, as it should. your work is impeccable and flawless, nothing short of perfection to say the least. i often find myself looking over the peaces i have from you in search of a flaw to no prevail. if your tank is anywhere near the quality of every other peace you have made it will no doubt be something of a conversation peace. I cant wait to get my tank from you!

    subscribed
    Well said, unfortunately my budget only extends to Peter's seat latch - which is a stunning piece of work.

    This
    Will
    Be
    Awesome
    #10079

    2007 - Ixil SlipOn Exhaust, BW Headers, NoFlo's, Uni Pods, +4 ELS Advancer, FP Jetting

  28. #28
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    awesome Peter! I'll be keeping an eye on this!

  29. #29
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Hertfordshire, UK

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Carbon Fuel Tank






    .
    .

    Bak. Derk-derka ala. Derka derka, Mohammed Jihad. Baka sherpa-sherpa. Abaka-la.

  30. #30
    Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Belgium

    Re: Carbon Fuel tank build

    Well , this thing has gone viral...
    500+vieuws in a good days time...WAW..
    Thank you guys from the bottom of my hart for all the "thums up's..".this will keep me motivated I'm sure..
    I know I don't shout out much , so I don't expect a waterfall of comment's every time I post something ,
    but that's ok..I will know by the amount of vieuw's how this is still of interest..

    Yesterday I got around to making all the block off plates needed to make sure no crap get's inside the tank..

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    A plate was lathe'd about 1/4 of a inch thick and mounted with flush bolts on the 3 m5 thread holes you see when you remove the gas cap.

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    I also made 2 m6 holes so I can mount 2studs , for when I work on the underside of the tank , it can be hold firmly in a vice

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    n the center I also made a sort of 'valve" that is loose but but sit's flush when in rest , this is for letting the hot air escape when I make my mold.
    for this I wil use polyester resin , and boy it sure get's hot when curing out , if the hot air could not escape , it will deform the tank so te mold will be
    of a "deformed" tank .big NONOÖ

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    underside block off's

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    everything nicely sealed of with silicone sealer ,once I begin molding, the 2 M6 holes will be blocked off with some play doh putty
    (stays soft and afterwards easely removable)
    , , I use this stuff alot as you will see in future postings , it stays soft , you can re-use like forever and withstands all chemicals thrown at them...just plan old kiddy's play doh.

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    Believe it or not I spended the good part of the day with these first preparations , but it's like building a house
    If the fundaments are no good , all the rest is just a waste of time or money...

    So this weekend I'm doing the stripper...Ö..








    PAINT stripper that is...Ö.


    Peter


 

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