+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 54 of 54
  1. #31
    I'm hungry. Let's get a taco.
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Montreal

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    The trends in aircraft automation aren't much different to how new cars are getting things like electric steering in preparation for fully autonomous operation.

    The forthcoming in court debates will likely center around some very complex code / flight control laws. Let's hope they select an intelligent jury....



    'Be who you are and say what you feel 'cause people who mind don't matter, and people who matter don't mind.'
    -Dr. Seuss

  2. #32
    Smokey 'ash
    Arashphalt
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Agreed. I think people arenít going to have a stomach for it.

    On road, the thought of programming death into the software will make people cringe.

    Meaning, if a car has to take evasive action and there is a motorcycle and a pedestrian, and it canít avoid them both and has to hit one...which one dies?

    If it happens spontaneously, then people can deal with the tragedy easier than if they know some engineer decided the fate of their loved ones using code written way in advance.

    Itís much easier to automate aircraft. Less crap to hit.
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s


  3. #33
    a gentleman and a real stand up guy
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Burpinham, Babalama

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    All great points guys. Totally agree on automation in response to emerging markets requiring the pilots test to "dumb down" to: do you have a pulse?

    The 777 (I believe that's what it was) that bounced off of the rock seawall at San Fran International several years ago was found to be caused by a Dinkus in the cockpit.
    I'm not completely useless. I can always be used as a bad example.

    The People's rear loading pink Beach Bomb.

    Kwackifoofoo

  4. #34
    Smokey 'ash
    Arashphalt
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    A few dinkusí actually! :

    You know what the root cause of that crash was right? The runway was too high

    If that pilot just looked out the window and had basic stick and rudder skills, he could have landed that 777 safely.

    Itís simple...when youíre on approach, if something youíre looking at is moving up your windshield, you arenít going to make it over it.

    If it moves down your windshield, youíre going to fly over it.

    If itís not moving and itís position is stationary on the windshield, thatís where youíre going to land.

    Contrary to what youíd think, the throttle controls altitude and the stick/yoke pitch controls airspeed.

    So you maintain the proper airspeed with the stick and adjust the throttle as needed to land where you want. The Asiana airlines folks waited too long and by the time they added power when they saw they were going to come up short, the engines didnít have enough time to spool up. Turbo lag got them (the runway was too high and needed to be 50 feet lower for them to survive!)
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s


  5. #35
    Smokey 'ash
    Arashphalt
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    I know many of you are aviation enthusiasts, so Iíd like to recommend this $17 book written in 1944 by a very smart German fellow.

    Itís just as true and applicable today as it was back then. I know many pilots that donít have a grasp of the basics outlined in this book. If you read it and understand it, youíll know more than many pilots who just go through the motions ABC 123 to make the plane do what they want without ever understanding how/why it works.

    When the poop hits the proverbial fan, the pilot who understands the concepts in this book is who I want up front if Iím in the passenger cabin.

    Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0070362408..._RU5ICb15APFF3



    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s


  6. #36
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    What I observed in comercial aviation pilots/flightcrews they operate on previous training, experience and "Tribal Knowledge", IOW most planes systems/controls are similar/same, etc. and they should be IMO for safety reasons.
    For obvious space/constraints issues there's very limited amount of documents that can and/or must be in a flight deck(cockpit), a operators manual is not
    one of them !!
    These smart planes that take over the pilot comands
    for the best outcome are a great idea, but computers are not perfect !!
    As electronics and computers take over our lives the humans will become less a factor and less accountable,
    That's the future !!

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  7. #37
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Most of the computer systems on aircraft as an any other fields are for efficiency and reduce cost, no mystery there.
    On large aircraft most of the feedback/feel from flight controls and even condition(stall) is artificially generated by computers, etc., it works well IMO.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  8. #38
    Smokey 'ash
    Arashphalt
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Until it doesnít...then the pilots get to hand fly the airplane for the first time.

    So funny how they donít even have to trim the Airbus. Whatever attitude they put it in, it just holds it. The pilot is just a voting member telling the computers what he desires and the software decides what he/she gets.
    Arash (pronounced "our-ash")

    CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

    2005 Green RessuREXtion - Amateur 1224 & Six Speed Installation - Oct 2015 BOTM - Yamaha R6 - Aprilia RS250s


  9. #39
    Born In The USA
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Redding, CA.

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    The plane has to programmed on the ground by the crew before takeoff. Where are we going, how are we getting there, what altitude, etc. Doug has told me the process, but I have slept since then. The airplane wants to do what it is told. If they make a mistake setting up the flight.........

    You may recall the Airbus that crashed at the Paris Airshow (?). The pilots wanted to go around as they were showing off the plane. The plane insisted on landing, and did so into the trees. The plane's side of the story, "You told me we were landing!"
    You'll never know how fast you can go, until you go too fast.

    I have discovered that half of being a good rebel is knowing what to rebel against.



    2014 Ninja 1000

    2005 ZX10

    1981 GPz550

  10. #40
    a gentleman and a real stand up guy
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Burpinham, Babalama

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    The Smithsonian channel had a show Air Disasters. Almost ALWAYS pilot error. Reasons as varied as s bag of M&Mís.
    I'm not completely useless. I can always be used as a bad example.

    The People's rear loading pink Beach Bomb.

    Kwackifoofoo

  11. #41
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Most of the latest versions aircraft ie. 787,777, etc. are strictly fly by-wire with full automated triple redundacy, there is none or very limited mechanical connection with control column !! I never worked the 737MAX, but all previous models had manual emergency control.

    Cadman your 100% correct, there's also auto throttle/power setting, even though you hold levers at full power, the actual power setting is controlled by computers, pilot must calculate and rotate aircraft manually(take off). There's other configuration conditions, etc, etc.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  12. #42
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Is around 80% pilot error, 20% mechanical.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  13. #43
    Color Monitor
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    So this is what I'm seeing widely reported.

    Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell on Wednesday cited unspecified evidence found at the crash scene as part of the justification for the agency to reverse course and temporarily halt flights of Boeing's largest selling aircraft. Up until then, American regulators had held off as nation after nation had grounded the plane, Boeing's best-selling jet model.

    The piece of evidence was a so-called jackscrew, used to set the trim that raises and lowers the plane's nose, according to the person, who requested anonymity to discuss the inquiry.

    A preliminary review of the device and how it was configured at the time of the crash indicated that it was set to push down the nose, according to the person, who wasn't authorized to speak publicly about the investigation.

    The jackscrew, combined with a newly obtained satellite flight track of the plane, convinced the FAA that there were similarities to the Oct. 29 crash of the same Max model off the coast of Indonesia. In the earlier accident, a safety feature on the Boeing aircraft was repeatedly trying to put the plane into a dive as a result of a malfunction.


    It sounds like the design changes that Boeing made to the 737Max to compensate for the differences in performance vs. the std. 737 are being looked at closely as the potential cause of these crashes.


    TG
    TGHW
    ZRXOA #5590
    Welcome to Wisconsin....Come smell our Dairy air !!


  14. #44
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Surrey, BC (Before Carbonfibre)

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    A short clip of "Children of magenta".



    Due to type limitations, the 737MAX could only have a limited amount of differences from the predecessor the 737NG. I think it was in the neighborhood of 100 changes to keep the same type certificate, they started to change things on the NG before the MAX to allow for a few more updates to the MAX. It has the same cable over hydraulic control system, but they made the spoilers fly by wire. This was done to allow the computer access to certain phases of flight without the crews input, such as the Landing Attitude Modifier (LAM). It controls pitch to keep the pilots from getting the 8 inch longer nose wheel on the runway before the mains, and to add a little drag on an ILS if the speed is determined to be a little high at approach idle.

    I do get the impression that they just wanted to put the bigger engines on the MAX to compete with the Airbus A320NEO, and then had to add systems for issues coming up in certification...thus MCAS...the most talked about acronym for the last week.

    I have pickled off...or leveled down many times when I was uncomfortable with how the aircraft was handling the situation under autopilot with the NG. Years of bush flying makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when something doesn't look right!
    "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."

    Douglas Adams



    ZRXOA #6379

  15. #45
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    03076 / 33917

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    OK I may be in the minority but I am a big fan of the A320 or A321. It is all I fly on.

    With all the stories coming out from U S Pilots, who found out AFTER the Lion Air crash that there were automated systems installed in the Max-8 and 9 that they were not told about and were not in the manuals.... the pilots were PISSED

    Plus the reports filed with NASA ( they take anonymous reports on planes) are not painting a pretty picture.


    I think Boeing, in order to bring the plane to market faster, and sell airlines on the plan that there would be no new type rating needed and a couple of hours in the SIM would suffice for training... absolutely cut corners and endangered everyone who got on one of those aircraft and people on the ground.

    And the FAA was complicit in that scheme and everyone involved should be hung.

    Boeing stock is down approx. SIXTY dollars a share since 3/2..... hovering at about $380 from a high of 440
    ZRX 1200R 7/2003 -5/2014

    ZZR1200 2009 2014

    2017 Concours 14 (current)
    HD 2013 FLHTK Stage 4
    HD 2003 FLHTCI cammed. closed loop FI, upgraded suspension

  16. #46
    Color Monitor
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    No matter how you look at it, Boeing is in deep shit on this one. The lawsuits are already being prepared. It will likely cost them billions.


    TG
    TGHW
    ZRXOA #5590
    Welcome to Wisconsin....Come smell our Dairy air !!


  17. #47
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by TGHW View Post
    No matter how you look at it, Boeing is in deep shit on this one. The lawsuits are already being prepared. It will likely cost them billions.


    TG
    Well as any lost of life is tragic, but people on both sides of the issue need to wait on reliable information on the cause, right now I see a lot assumptions out there from third party experts.
    It's been over 4 months since the 1st crash and if we assume the 2nd one happened for the same reasons, it means we really don't know the cause IMO.
    I've personally done hundreds flight control maintenance and checks on all types of Boeing models.
    Stabilizer trim runaway(aka pitch control) is easily controlled by an experienced flight crew under normal conditions, I've personally performed the test myself on plenty 737's.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  18. #48
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    The FAA is planning to sign off on Boeing's software fix for grounded 737 Max planes on March 25, a source tells CNBC.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  19. #49
    Color Monitor
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by TGHW View Post
    No matter how you look at it, Boeing is in deep shit on this one. The lawsuits are already being prepared. It will likely cost them billions.


    TG
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen#212 View Post
    Well as any lost of life is tragic, but people on both sides of the issue need to wait on reliable information on the cause, right now I see a lot assumptions out there from third party experts.
    It's been over 4 months since the 1st crash and if we assume the 2nd one happened for the same reasons, it means we really don't know the cause IMO.
    I've personally done hundreds flight control maintenance and checks on all types of Boeing models.
    Stabilizer trim runaway(aka pitch control) is easily controlled by an experienced flight crew under normal conditions, I've personally performed the test myself on plenty 737's.
    I'm no expert and I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm fully onboard with waiting for the completion of the investigation, that doesn't however change my opinion regarding what I believe this is going to cost Boeing, regardless of the outcome.



    TG
    TGHW
    ZRXOA #5590
    Welcome to Wisconsin....Come smell our Dairy air !!


  20. #50
    Color Monitor
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen#212 View Post
    The FAA is planning to sign off on Boeing's software fix for grounded 737 Max planes on March 25, a source tells CNBC.
    If they need to apply a "fix" to the software, what does that indicate?


    TG
    TGHW
    ZRXOA #5590
    Welcome to Wisconsin....Come smell our Dairy air !!


  21. #51
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by TGHW View Post
    If they need to apply a "fix" to the software, what does that indicate?


    TG
    Yes by Boeing issuing a Service Bulletin/Airworthiness Directive(FAA), they are indeed admitting there's a problem, to be solved with software update ?.
    But is not that simple IMO, with over 300 of the max planes in service and thousands of cycles, two had failures and a few related unofficial incidents reported by pilots anonymously ?.
    So it could be specific conditions/procedures in these two flights that caused the incidents ??
    Keep in mind that no US operator or the FAA wanted to ground planes, it was the POTUS !!
    Last edited by Allen#212; 03-16-2019 at 05:19 PM.

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  22. #52
    Born In The USA
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Redding, CA.

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Maybe the new software just rejects impossible demands from the copilot. "No, you can't cruise at 3,500 feet. Try again by adding a zero."
    You'll never know how fast you can go, until you go too fast.

    I have discovered that half of being a good rebel is knowing what to rebel against.



    2014 Ninja 1000

    2005 ZX10

    1981 GPz550

  23. #53
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Christmas, FL

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Just keep logged on FB, they will have the latest, most updated and accurate info on this incident and everything else for that matter

    Orig. owner, 99 ZRX, 60k+
    ZX11 cams,pistons
    08/Honda/stick coils
    Cams 105 int.,107 exh.
    Fact. 1.0 w/Ti. needles,102 MJ
    Airbox w/ K+N , no snorkle
    Full Akro S.S/Ti.
    Stock ignition w/Advancer
    Dyno 131.7 HP/80.4 TQ.
    Ohlins shocks, Race tech fork
    Fork brace+Steering damper


    "TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE" IS EASY, RETURNING IS THE REAL CHALLENGE.

  24. #54
    Color Monitor
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Re: Flying commercial in America in the next few days/weeks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen#212 View Post
    Yes by Boeing issuing a Service Bulletin/Airworthiness Directive(FAA), they are indeed admitting there's a problem, to be solved with software update ?.
    But is not that simple IMO, with over 300 of the max planes in service and thousands of cycles, two had failures and a few related unofficial incidents reported by pilots anonymously ?.
    So it could be specific conditions/procedures in these two flights that caused the incidents ??
    Keep in mind that no US operator or the FAA wanted to ground planes, it was the POTUS !!
    Go back and read the first sentence in post #43.


    TG
    TGHW
    ZRXOA #5590
    Welcome to Wisconsin....Come smell our Dairy air !!



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.7
Copyright © 2019 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 PM.
vBulletin 4.0 skin by CompleteVB