+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 50
  1. #1
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    I've never experienced this before.

    I have not been riding much as some folks are aware.

    Rebuilt front Brembo calipers.

    New seals

    New "O" rings

    Brembo cup grease used.

    New brake pads

    Rebuilt stock, front Master Cylinder

    Momma Kaw rebuild kit.

    Fresh DOT 4 brake fluid

    New crush washers used throughout

    HEL Brake lines

    Pazzo levers

    No leaks

    About three weeks ago, manually moved the bike, hit the front brake to stop the roll, lever went to the grip.

    Pumped up after next pull.

    Spooked, re-bled the system, no air.

    Checked brake lever prior to ride, solid.

    Rode the bike, stops spectacularly.

    Checked brake lever prior to ride, solid.

    Rode the bike again, stops spectacularly.

    Today, manually move the bike, lever goes right to the grip.

    Pumped up first pull.

    I know, don't move the bike manually ..........

    A bit of a boggle.

    Haven't ridden in a while, it's been oppressively hot in the garage since th last day I rode.

    Opinions?
    Last edited by SPORTSMAN; 07-21-2015 at 01:55 PM.
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  2. #2
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Florida....On the corner of "walk" and "Dont Walk"

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    I've had the same problem with bad slave cylinders on cars.

    Fluid levels stays constant?
    ZRXOA #9877
    "IT'S NOT THE BIG THAT EAT THE SMALL..... IT'S THE FAST THAT EAT THE SLOW"
    2004 ZRX1200R-Silver


    Past Kawi's: 76 KZ900, 78 KZ1000, 80 Z1 Classic

    Off Brands: 74 Honda XR75, 80 Yamaha YZ250, 84 Honda 1100 Magna,
    95 Suzuki RF900R, 88 Suzuki Katana 1100
    Wish List: 74 Yamaha DT400

  3. #3
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Kittery, ME

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    To me it sounds like the MC rebuild is now letting the lines slowly lose pressure over time. How long between each one of your events?

  4. #4
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Nine days maybe?
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  5. #5
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Fluid level constant, no loss.
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  6. #6
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Florida....On the corner of "walk" and "Dont Walk"

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by asfastas63 View Post
    To me it sounds like the MC rebuild is now letting the lines slowly lose pressure over time. How long between each one of your events?
    Another good one.

    It's a closed system so there's possibly a breach somewhere. Fluid leaks usually tell you where but it's all dry right?
    ZRXOA #9877
    "IT'S NOT THE BIG THAT EAT THE SMALL..... IT'S THE FAST THAT EAT THE SLOW"
    2004 ZRX1200R-Silver


    Past Kawi's: 76 KZ900, 78 KZ1000, 80 Z1 Classic

    Off Brands: 74 Honda XR75, 80 Yamaha YZ250, 84 Honda 1100 Magna,
    95 Suzuki RF900R, 88 Suzuki Katana 1100
    Wish List: 74 Yamaha DT400

  7. #7
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Kittery, ME

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by SPORTSMAN View Post
    Nine days maybe?
    So this is your timeline. I'm just wondering if there was more time in between the events leading up to a weak lever (W, Z) than the times that it sat but the lever was ok (X, Y).

    - Brakes Completely Rebuilt
    - W days without touching
    - Lever went to the grip, pumped back up, went for a ride, worked well
    - X days without touching
    - Went for a ride, lever was fine, worked well
    - Y days without touching
    - Went for a ride, lever was fine, worked well
    - Z days without touching
    - Went to move bike, no lever.

  8. #8
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    All dry, and a full brake bleed after first incident.
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  9. #9
    President of the ZRXOA
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Next time look at your pistons to see if they have somehow retracted back into the caliper. I've had such severe headshake on my R6 on the track that after I saved it I ended up pumping the front brake twice before the pistons put the pads in contact with the rotor again.

    Maybe something about the caliper seals you put in are causing a(the) piston(s) to back away from the rotor...just a guess if there are no leaks.

  10. #10
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Florida....On the corner of "walk" and "Dont Walk"

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    OK. My best guess is that the rebuild on the MC went awry somewhere.
    ZRXOA #9877
    "IT'S NOT THE BIG THAT EAT THE SMALL..... IT'S THE FAST THAT EAT THE SLOW"
    2004 ZRX1200R-Silver


    Past Kawi's: 76 KZ900, 78 KZ1000, 80 Z1 Classic

    Off Brands: 74 Honda XR75, 80 Yamaha YZ250, 84 Honda 1100 Magna,
    95 Suzuki RF900R, 88 Suzuki Katana 1100
    Wish List: 74 Yamaha DT400

  11. #11
    My DR blah - blah
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Saylorsburg, Pa

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    since you have no loss, and things were fine, I would suspect the master cyl also.
    My bike history in order: 80 ds100, 82 rm125, 82 gs750t, 84 lt230, 86 klr250, 86 gsxr750, 82 gs1100e, 85 kx125, 87 zx1000, 86 kx 250, 91 kx500, 97 zx-11, 78 gs400, 99 dr650, 2000 'busa, 2001 zrx1200r, 2004 kx500, 2004 klr250, 2005 xr650r, 2008 c-14, 2003 kx500, 2004 kx500, 2004 zrx1200r, 2006 dr650, I might be missing a few....

  12. #12
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Factory Kit(s)? K&L stuff is crap.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  13. #13
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Oxford, Michigan

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Question: When you rebuilt the master cylinder did you clean, inspect or hone the bore? Is there the possibility there is grunge in or that the bore is pitted? Are you moving the lever at the same rate in both cases, moving it in the garage and out riding? When it fails the first time do you move it at the same speed when you pump it up as you did when it showed no pressure? Fluid may be bypassing the master cylinder piston. when sitting try a slow apply vs a fast one to see if there is a difference.
    Davey

  14. #14
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    It's easy to put the seal on the pushrod backwards.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  15. #15
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Cleaned but did not hone cylinder, very low mile bike, cleaned and visual inspection.

    No gunk, frequently bled.

    Anal Retentive.

    (Should that be hyphenated?)

    All Momma Kaw parts.

    I'm leaning towards master too.

    Pistons cleaned and lubed, went in with difficulty, which I found odd.

    Verified parts numbers, as per stickers correct.

    Think I put it back together correctly, kind of a no brainer .......
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  16. #16
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Gonna check it daily
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  17. #17
    Born In The USA
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Redding, CA.

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    A bit of a reach here;

    Fluid moves to areas of less pressure.
    Fluid expands when heated.
    The atmosphere is pressing equally on the pad side of the caliper piston and the top of the brake fluid in the reservoir.
    You return from a ride with hot brakes. As the fluid cools it has less volume. The pressure in the lines drops as a result and fluid in the reservoir moves toward this lower pressure to equalize.

    Unless it can't. Why?

    To get into the area of lower pressure, the fluid must move past the master cylinder piston seal/cup or through the by-pass port. The tiny by-pass port is just ahead of the "at rest" piston cup position. A single grain of sand may not fit in that hole. It can be cleaned with a single strand of wire pulled out of a short length of 16 gauge wire (or such).

    The other side of the flow seems like it is often over looked. The atmosphere must be allowed to press on the fluid. In the same way that fuel will not flow out of a tank without a vent, the atmosphere must be allowed into the reservoir. Since water content in the air will be absorbed by the fluid, thereby degrading it, Mama Kaw has installed a diaphragm to stand between the atmosphere and the fluid.
    An old diaphragm is not as flexible as a new one. If it doesn't flex, fluid can't move out of the reservoir. Now there is less pressure in the caliper than there is in the atmosphere so the pistons are pushed back into the low pressure area.
    You squeeze the brake handle and push the caliper pistons back out. The action of releasing the lever causes low pressure in front of the cup. Since it has been setting for an extended time, pressure has equalized with the atmosphere in the reservoir and that pushes fluid past the cup on the return stroke.

    This is the same reason you have to loosen the reservoir cap when you bleed the brakes.
    Your mileage may vary.
    You'll never know how fast you can go, until you go too fast.

    I have discovered that half of being a good rebel is knowing what to rebel against.



    2014 Ninja 1000

    2005 ZX10

    1981 GPz550

  18. #18
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    If the caliper Pistons went in hard, you may have a pinched dust seal

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  19. #19
    Two wheeled FREAK
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NY - Between thought and expression...

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    When the system is at rest, there should be no pressure on the fluid besides gravity.

    Since fluid is not being lost (you would see fluid at the banjo fittings or calipers/rotors etc), I'd have to agree with Kwick - sounds like one of the seals is twisting/flexing at the calipers or perhaps the master...

    Have you strapped the lever to the bar over night? Does it hold pressure?

    PM me for great prices on ÷hlins shocks and forks!
    ZRX-1200 - 2001 #2 - 45,500 miles and counting
    Highly opinionated and somewhat twisted, or so I've been told.

    http://www.orientexpress.com + http://www.hudsonvalleymotorcycles.com - places where I used to work...

  20. #20
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    USA

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    One pump to firm up? I say master cylinder.

    But what do I know .

  21. #21
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Hasn't repeated.

    Which kinda scares me more.
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  22. #22
    2009 Hooligan of the year
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by SPORTSMAN View Post
    Hasn't repeated.

    Which kinda scares me more.

    Sure sounding like you have (or maybe had) a rolled piston seal.

  23. #23
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by zrx24 View Post
    Sure sounding like you have (or maybe had) a rolled piston seal.
    Yup, dust seal.

    I have taken apart ZRX calipers that were that way from the Factory...true story...
    Last edited by KWICK; 07-24-2015 at 06:47 PM.

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  24. #24
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    A bit of a update for posterior.....

    Rode the bike carefully during the KOTF Rally, for two reasons, one that some know, the other because I didn't trust the brakes.

    No issues, except the lever travel seemed excessive to me.

    The kind gentleman Hollowmedic and I bled the brakes at the rally.

    No improvement, no worse either.

    Took an easy ride on Thursday, through the ride, brake lever got even closer to the lever.

    Not happy.

    I have a track day coming next month, so time to get this buttoned up.

    Winter mods included going to a ZX750 master.

    Thought about getting a ZRX piston kit, hey might as well do the ZX750 master now, new Momma Kaw kit installed.

    Pulled the calipers, Brembo 30-34's, split em, no rolled seals.

    The seals were new when I put 'em together late this spring.

    I do notice some uneven pad wear, like the cups were not moving uniformly.

    Too, I noticed some staining from the old nasty brake fluid that I removed when I first disassembled the calipers.

    Going to spend some more time cleaning.

    I guess the real reason for the post is as follows.

    Two folks I trust implicitly are KWICK and Fred from Yoyodyne.

    KWICK offered a suggestion that I'm going to follow on the rebuild, which, in talking to Fred yesterday, he also suggested.

    What I'm saddened to hear Yoyodyne is no longer a Brembo distributor for Brembo components or parts.

    It appears that someone has petitioned Brembo to be the sole Brembo distributor in the United States, and Fred was bumped out.

    Sad, a very helpful guy.

    So the front brake rebuild continues.

    Thanks for the guidance folks!
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  25. #25
    Devilsí Advocate
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Large and Prickley

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    The ZX7 master uses the same kit as the ZRX, their operation are exactly the same

    ooooooooooooo

    WARNING: ELS Products MAY CONTAIN, or be Made With, Patented Parts, Tools, Components and/or Apparati. Manufacturing Facility DOES Contain Nuts.

    PayPal to: Pete@Hyper-Formance.com
    www.ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com
    Pete Aronson
    315 West Elliot Road
    Suites 107-487
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    602-397-4869.

  26. #26
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    USA

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Something to think about. You can get into just as tight a jamb by "taking it easy" on a bike with bad brakes as you can going fast. No track days with your current set up. No riding either.
    Hope this helps.

  27. #27
    Hogan
    Guest

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    i had a bad master once - once pads got heated up they didn't release - the master had dirt prevent fluid flowing back into master - brakes sticking is a scary thing , pushing under throttle and stopping twice as fast off throttle - had to throttle down slow, knowing when I stopped throttle my stopping the bike was almost instant - 700 lb integrated brake system

    best of luck - redo that thing with new seals until things move as they should & it is 100 % imho

  28. #28
    DonBob Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Between Here And There

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    She's apart now, my brake fluid compatible Tygon hose is in the mailbox.

    Just got to get some piston lube tomorrow, and we'll button her up.

    Hopefully, all better tomorrow afternoon.
    2002 Gasta Glas Ri,
    The 2007 Kaws On The Farm, Hooligan's Choice Award!
    The March 2011 Bike Of The Month!
    The 2011 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"
    2005 Raon Ri Masc
    The October 2014, Bike Of The Month
    The August 2018, Bike Of The Month!

    The 2018 ZRXOA Bike Of The Year!
    "THE FASTEST REX IN PLATTEKILL, NEW YORK!"

    1999 "The Lone Warrior" ZRX1100R
    1996 Giggle Bike,
    1988 Nekid Gixxer,
    1979 Strumpet

  29. #29
    Hogan
    Guest

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    Quote Originally Posted by SPORTSMAN View Post
    She's apart now, my brake fluid compatible Tygon hose is in the mailbox.

    Just got to get some piston lube tomorrow, and we'll button her up.

    Hopefully, all better tomorrow afternoon.
    tygon is for sale in mattydale ny at pine environmental fwiw - they have tygon and generic tygon - by box or feet if ya get lucky - but it is on demand and reasonable $$$ - I heard advance auto has it but not sure how much $$$

    - I need to get some for a carb synch / balance board I got to make to check my carbs

  30. #30
    BadAss Hooligan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania

    Re: Opines on non-consecutive brake boggle

    The EX500 master that Kwick suggested works amazingly well with the galfer lines. Huge difference over stock master. Cheap to make happen too.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.7
Copyright © 2020 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.
vBulletin 4.0 skin by CompleteVB