Let us see if we can resolve the Flat Spot using the ZX11 carb set up!

[SteddyTeddy]

4mm is a drastic change. I would be very surpised if you don't notice some kind of change, good or bad!

[kajunzrex]

I still have the bowls off, think I should go a little less drastic?

[kajunzrex]

If you look at my last pic im still several mm higher than your line, im gonna go ahead and try them like this, I know its a big adjust ment but relative to your line I think Ill be safe.

Theo,
In the pic I posted note the line I have drawn. How many mm above the line is the fuel level? The raised line just under the "K" in Keihen is where they measure the float/fuel height from when the carbs are used in a down draft head application. I don't know what the exact level should be in the down draft application in relation to the bossed line under the "K". I need to find a ZZR shop manual. IIRC dropping the fuel level 1mm from where it's at would be my first adjustment and see what it does. 1mm at a time Theo, it will lean out every circuit in the carbs. I have seen different float heights posted on the OC. I just downloaded the ZZR manual, let me see what it says about float height.

Attachment 155458

[kajunzrex]

Well, I decided to raise the fuel level 1mm'ish before I closed them back up. On the ride home I did notice a difference, it was more snappy but not a huge improvement. I gotta be honest Im full of doubts and a little discouraged....first off I had a good deal of difficulty getting the floats even because I dont have a real float gauge and secondly I dont really know where to go from here. I have the mechanical knowledge to make the adjustments but often times have difficulty explaining/interpreting the results. I am almost tempted to give up and just ride it like it is but I hate to because I feel like this engine is capable of alot more. I really wish I could spend a weekend with someone knowledgeable and get this thing dialed in

*Sorry for the rant, I needed to whine a little*

[compressor59]

Theo, how are you checking the fuel level? On the bike or off. When I do mine I clamp mine to a saw horse so that they are level and run mineral spirits through them so you don't have to deal with the stinky gas. It's just a matter of tweeking the tabs.

[Hawk1]

It seems to me looking at the photos that you still have fuel level way to high.
I would set the level to the gasket bowl surface. start from there.
Lowering the level at least 8.mm so the level will be near the gasket surface at the
bowl. I’m running the 40´s with pods and have the fuel level
1.mm under the float bowl gasket. Running just fine according
to the a/f reading. But dont know anything about the MoFlo setup.
Ask Kwick he knows...?

[SteddyTeddy]

Now would be a good time to invest in a wideband.

[Hawk1]

Now would be a good time to invest in a wideband.

[kajunzrex]

Theo, how are you checking the fuel level? On the bike or off. When I do mine I clamp mine to a saw horse so that they are level and run mineral spirits through them so you don't have to deal with the stinky gas. It's just a matter of tweeking the tabs.

I was doing it on the bike....which proved to be quite cumbersome.

[kajunzrex]

Wow! That would mean your float height is probably 20+mm! Do you have any problems with starvation at wide open or during wheelies?

It seems to me looking at the photos that you still have fuel level way to high.
I would set the level to the gasket bowl surface. start from there.
Lowering the level at least 8.mm so the level will be near the gasket surface at the
bowl. I’m running the 40´s with pods and have the fuel level
1.mm under the float bowl gasket. Running just fine according
to the a/f reading. But dont know anything about the MoFlo setup.
Ask Kwick he knows...?

[kajunzrex]

Now would be a good time to invest in a wideband.

I've looked at the Innovate LM2 before I just dont have the knowledge or cash.....but Im sure I could learn it. Maybe I can set up a CVK40 tuning donation fund

[SteddyTeddy]

$160 to $200 for a guage and sensor. $250 and up for one that also datalogs. Once you have one, you won't know how you did without.

[kajunzrex]

$160 to $200 for a guage and sensor. $250 and up for one that also datalogs. Once you have one, you won't know how you did without.

Can you recommend one?

[SteddyTeddy]

Haven't heard any complaints about the AEM's. You can also find LC-1's with a guage for under $200. Stay away from the Autometer! I'm running an old Wideband commander. Its ok but could be a lot better. Inovative has killer software with their data logging units. For normal riding just the sensor and guage work great. At the drag strip I don't spend much time watching guages so I spent for one that datalogs.

[kajunzrex]

Haven't heard any complaints about the AEM's. You can also find LC-1's with a guage for under $200. Stay away from the Autometer! I'm running an old Wideband commander. Its ok but could be a lot better. Inovative has killer software with their data logging units. For normal riding just the sensor and guage work great. At the drag strip I don't spend much time watching guages so I spent for one that datalogs.

Like this? http://www.aemonly.com/analog-gauges...auge-2008.html I'd like one that lo0gs as well so that I can show you guys and get help interpretting what Im seeing.

[SteddyTeddy]

Yes. That is a good basic setup. They are cheaper on ebay. You just need something that you can read while riding with the bike under a normal load. The datalogging becomes nice when doing WOT runs so you can pay attention to the road. Most of the time you'll use it to tune for normal riding conditions, low and mid range.

[Vincent Hill]

It seems to me looking at the photos that you still have fuel level way to high.
I would set the level to the gasket bowl surface. start from there.
Lowering the level at least 8.mm so the level will be near the gasket surface at the
bowl. I’m running the 40´s with pods and have the fuel level
1.mm under the float bowl gasket. Running just fine according
to the a/f reading. But dont know anything about the MoFlo setup.
Ask Kwick he knows...?

WHen you say that you are running "40's" are you saying that you have the ZX11 Carbs or 40 MM Side Draft Carbs? The way the ZX11 Carbs were made they are more Down Draft then Side Draft like the Stock ZRX Carbs are Hence the wierd Float levels.

Theo, the 2 things I would state about float level is #1 that they MUST be done on the Bike using a SHop stand. Leaning left or right WILL change the Float level. TILTED to the Front or Back will also change the Float level. SO as you run them that is how I would suggest setting the Float level.

#2, I also think that the level you saw was pretty high, AND since taking the Carbs on and off the bike is truly no fun, I would make the first step a fairly large one so you know that If you are still rich that you will want to go at least 50% that way again. BUT if the Bike is running a LOT better then I would leave the setting along until I had more time on the dyno to see your results.

Last, on the Innovate / Data logger, People like Teddy and myself that are actually Racing the bike Need this. FOr you, on the street, I would get something a log cheaper and easier to deal with. Usually for about $50 to $75 you can find a Gauge and O2 sensor that as you are riding the Bike you can see what your A/F truly is and if you mark your throttle like I suggested, you will know where you are rich or lean and art what RPM!

Something like this hooked to a 2 wire O2 sensor that you can buy for $20 to $30 USD
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/red-d...tio-gauge.aspx

[SteddyTeddy]

There is a reason the Wideband replaced the old 2 wire, its better!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC-...item4843557b9d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1...item45feabe764

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-AEM-UEG...item3f11a62f87

[Vincent Hill]

There is a reason the Wideband replaced the old 2 wire, its better!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC-...item4843557b9d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1...item45feabe764

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-AEM-UEG...item3f11a62f87

Is Better Always Better? Un leaded Gasoline, Electronic Ignitions, Fuel Injection, Data Logging.

In Gasoline the removal of lead caused serious problems to the drinking water when the New additive "MTBE" seeped into the ground. This helped Oxygenate the fuel and raise the Octane but eventually they had to remove it. Now they learn that just like Saccharin the alternative may be worse than the original problem!

In the Old days you could always adjust the Points and get home. Nowaday you either have a spare Ignition unit and sensors or you walk home. Nothing like needing a freind to tow you home from Church in your Porsche 911 because there is No spark and you do not have a spare Ignition Unit on hand!

Fuel Injection very neat until a fuel line breaks and sprays fuel at 50 to 75 PSI or you need to drain the 25 gallons of fuel in the tank to replace the pump! (I did this in Lumberton North Carolina Just after I had filled up with 27 gallong of fuel in March on a 40 degree windy day. The blessing was the Advanced Auto across the street! Had a Pump go bad on my 1985 Astro Van and removed 2 bolts and 2 lines and was back in business in 1 hour. The 98 Asto Van took 9 hours from start to finish.

Data Logging tells you EVERYTHING that was going on during a run "After" the run a wide ban cost 2 to 3 times as much and when the sensor goes bad 2 to 3 times as much to replace specially when using leaded race fuels fuels

Teddy, All I am saying is that sometimes Money matters and Sometimes "Convenience" Matters and in this economy to know what is going on for $100 "LESS" may be feasable where the extra $100 may stop the deal. It is an "ALternative" to the WIdeband that still reads the A/F AND WIll tell him Better than the Sniffer on the Dyno because it will be sitting closer than the Probe usually sits to the Exhaust port!

[SteddyTeddy]

You get what you pay for. Every time I try and go the cheap way it just bites me in the ass latter. He's not running race gas so he should have no problem fouling the sensor. I'm still on the same one that come with mine 4 years later. And yes I have run a few tanks of race gas and a few bottles of NOS past it. His decission. I just posted a few that were under $200 and would do a very good job.

[Vincent Hill]

You get what you pay for. Every time I try and go the cheap way it just bites me in the ass latter. He's not running race gas so he should have no problem fouling the sensor. I'm still on the same one that come with mine 4 years later. And yes I have run a few tanks of race gas and a few bottles of NOS past it. His decission. I just posted a few that were under $200 and would do a very good job.

We are all in 100% agreement! My 1982 BMW 320I and Porsche 911 sc BOTH have a "Single" wire O2 Sensor and have been working for MANY years. The wide band O2 sensor in the 2003 Mini cooper "S" (Before and after the Converter) have both failed twice. Each at about 50 to 60,000 miles. As you say, it is always our life experiences that guide our judgment.

ALL of what you have is on the edge of performance. The rest of us are a little down stream from where you fish. The narrow band cost less because it does less and may actually be better made. That Gauge at $125 marked down to $50+ is not what I would call cheap either. Either way, he now has all of the options! Back in my day, I would have been happy with ANY of these options but because most of them were not available, everyone had to develop a lot of tuning skills not needed today but could really separate the Men from the Boys in "My" Day!

[skandix]

I checked my fuel height today on 1 & 4 Carbs. The fuel level goes to the the bowl gasket, I really can't feel any rich spots. My plugs are tan in color around electrode any black by the threads. I make short trips and ride to work(2miles) , that may explain the black soot. I do have decel popping after WOT . I hope this helps?

[Vincent Hill]

I checked my fuel height today on 1 & 4 Carbs. The fuel level goes to the the bowl gasket, I really can't feel any rich spots. My plugs are tan in color around electrode any black by the threads. I make short trips and ride to work(2miles) , that may explain the black soot. I do have decel popping after WOT . I hope this helps?

What carbs are you using and I like that USD front end! Looks like a ZX12R front end?

[skandix]

I am running 40 CVK ZX9 Carbs, with Ktric, my own custom air box. The front end is off a 2009 ZX14, custom speedo drive, stock ZRX front wheel.

[Vincent Hill]

I am running 40 CVK ZX9 Carbs, with Ktric, my own custom air box. The front end is off a 2009 ZX14, custom speedo drive, stock ZRX front wheel.

I am Impressed! You are someone that has his own ideas and the ability to carry them out. My kind of person! (I know a little something about going down roads no one else has traveled!

[Hawk1]

Sorry for late response.
I’m running ZZR1200 40 CVK carbs, but with Pods.
Plastic slides, not the Zink old type.
Similar fuel level as Skandix.
Fuel level is 1.mm below the bowl gasket.
From top of the float. Fuel high is stock 12-13.mm
Pilot jet #40 and Mains Keihin #225.
But that’s the way I’m running the 40 with Pods.
Innovate LC-1, 1224, with high compressions pistons
and ZZR12 cams.
Really...., I don’t know how to fine tune those carbs
without having a/f wideband reading!!!
Wideband is a must.

[Vincent Hill]

Thanks Hawk, this puts everyone in Very good company! The last time I had to deal with Float Height was when I had "EI Blue Magnum" Carburetors. Bill "Pappy" Edmonds made them. He also made the Lake, Posi-Fuel, Lectron and the last one "QuickSilver" now used on a Lot of Harleys.

He hated Jets and did everything with the Needle that was flat on 1 side and round on the other. He metered the fuel by the width of the needle, the taper and the FUel level! This was 30 years ago so I am a "Little" Rusty!

[skandix]

I am Impressed! You are someone that has his own ideas and the ability to carry them out. My kind of person! (I know a little something about going down roads no one else has traveled!

Thanks for the compliment Vince, I have found a great deal of information and people on this, I am only trying to give back what I have received!
The ZX9 carbs are lighter then the ZX11 and have the plastic slides as well.

[Vincent Hill]

Thanks for the compliment Vince, I have found a great deal of information and people on this, I am only trying to give back what I have received!
The ZX9 carbs are littler then the ZX11 and have the plastic slides as well.

I may need to look at getting a set and setting them up on my 1100! I am "only" 6 HP Shy of having 150 SAE HP and I like that Round figure number! After all, My ZX12R only had 153 SAE HP when I started out and was able to reach 183 with everything still stock internally. Any Year ZX9 in partricular I should be looking for??

[skandix]

I may need to look at getting a set and setting them up on my 1100! I am "only" 6 HP Shy of having 150 SAE HP and I like that Round figure number! After all, My ZX12R only had 153 SAE HP when I started out and was able to reach 183 with everything still stock internally. Any Year ZX9 in partricular I should be looking for??

I believe they are from a 1999 ZX9. I am running Factory Pro needle, DJ Springs, 38 pilot and 210 Main. They are not a direct bolt on. I had to cut the mounting boss's, shave down tabs, and t-fuel lines. The Choke bar has to be modified as well. Or you can sub statue ZX11 parts for some as I did later.