Help on ZG1000 eng diag

[ZRX Mitch]

Forget the firing sequence for a minute. Plug wires from the left coil go to the outside cylinders, wires from the other coil go to the middle pair.

[Copyguy]

Is his issue "wires FROM coils to plugs" or "wires TO coils"?

[kenthewrench]

Ok I'll give it a try in the mornin before I order up a new ECU. I coulda swore I tried some different plug wire configs while tryin to get it running right and nothing else made a difference,BUT what the heck it won't hurt to try once more. Thanks---Ken

[kenthewrench]

Is his issue "wires FROM coils to plugs" or "wires TO coils"?

What I found at the end of today was an issue with the way the wires going INTO the coils(primary side). When the negative was switched both cy'l that were missing started firing and the firing ones started missing. I left positive wires alone(because it makes no difference).

[Rexter]

all this posting has me

verify this...


red/blk to the left coil with plug wires running to 1/4
red/grn to right coil with plug wires running to 2/3

[ZRX Mitch]

all this posting has me

verify this...


red/blk to the left coil with plug wires running to 1/4
red/grn to right coil with plug wires running to 2/3

Older Connie, colors may not be the same.

[kenthewrench]

Primary wire colors are the same,I'm gonna try the secondary wire switch recommended by Mitch in the mornin when I get to shop. Thanks----Ken

[KWICK]

One coil does 1-4, the other 2-3.
Get that right.
Then if it doesn't start, swap the primary wires.

[Copyguy]

Coil wires properly grounded? I know the Connie's left coil is grounded under the forward nut that mounts the coil (left/front). Not sure about the right, but if I understand what you're saying, maybe it's a bad ground on one of the coils, and by switching the negatives, you're transferring the good ground, then getting a spark. Broken wire? Corrosion? Don't know, but anxious to hear.

[kenthewrench]

Coil wires properly grounded? I know the Connie's left coil is grounded under the forward nut that mounts the coil (left/front). Not sure about the right, but if I understand what you're saying, maybe it's a bad ground on one of the coils, and by switching the negatives, you're transferring the good ground, then getting a spark. Broken wire? Corrosion? Don't know, but anxious to hear.

Yes the ground is on left front bolt/nut of coil and is good(verified).

[kenthewrench]

One coil does 1-4, the other 2-3.
Get that right.
Then if it doesn't start, swap the primary wires.

I'm gonna try a different configuration of the firing order than whats in the book and see what happens. Some here seem to think order left to right is 1-2-3-4,not the 1-2-4-3 that the service manual has clearly pictured. Never know I might have been following a typo this whole time. We'll see shortly when I get to shop. Thanks---Ken

[kenthewrench]

Can you say "BIG FAT PHUCKING TYPO" ?????? I wired it as Mitch suggested and VIOLA it runs on all "4"cyl's. I'll be dipped in sh!t!!!!!! I guess this warrants a call to Clymer to let them know this has/could cost people lots of time and money(like me!!!!!!). Thanks Mitch!!!!!!! I'll send you a PM to see if theres anything I can do for you for helping solve this. Thanks also to the rest of you for stimulating my sometimes one way brain. What a lesson!!!!!! This is why it pays to ask for help even though experience tells you at times you know it all. Kudos to all!!!!!! Ken

[Copyguy]

Good info for all. Glad it worked out. Sorry you have so much time into it, but we've all done it.

[kenthewrench]

Ya right ? And I'm sure it'll happen again too,but not on this model thats for sure. Bad thing is not only does it show it wrong in a picture but the paragraph describing cylinder firing order it tells you the same "wrong" thing again. Somebody goofed bad on that one. I could see screw'n up blindly,but when the "manual" your supposed to trust from a reputable company gives you bad info its just that much worse. What a sense of relief!!!!!!!!

[kenthewrench]

Note to all who own a 1986-2003 Kawi Connie----On page 56(of Clymer Kawasaki Concours 1986-2003 service manual) where it talks about cylinder firing order,engine rotation and the start of tuneup procedures is where this "wrong" information is written and pictured. I've changed it and I suggest all who own one do the same as to not get in the same rut as I did. Thanks----Ken

[KWICK]

The firing order is 1243

That has nothing to do with having the plug wires on the wrong cylinders

[KWICK]

And just whats that supposed to mean Kwik??

As for the firing order------Once again I will put it as THE SERVICE MANUAL STATES---- firing order is 1-2-4-3 from left to right. Left side coil fires 1-4,and right side fires 2-3. I have it wired EXACTLY as service manual states. I'm just as shocked that when I switched the coil negative leads from one side to another,and the misfire moved,as you all are,BUT it is what it is. As for the plug wires,plugs,and boots,they are ALL brand new out of the box tested with a Fluke DVOM,and are spot on with manual specs as are the pickup coils. This is one for the books for sure!!!!!!

You are wrong with the above.

1&4 fire EACH TIME the pistons come up to tdc
There is a wasted spark

2&3 fire each time the pistons come up to tdc, there is also a wasted spark

The firing order is 1243
One coil fires 1&4, the other 2&3

[KWICK]

Great point!!

One coil does 1 & 4
The other does 2 & 3

Me thinks you have your wires on the wrong cylinders.

It wouldn't be the first time, some guy...who is not a mechanic...did this a couple months ago.

You can donate my prize to ZRXOA.funds@gmail.com as that is the ZRXOA donation PayPal account.

Cheers,
Pete

[Doktor]

You are wrong with the above.

1&4 fire EACH TIME the pistons come up to tdc
There is a wasted spark

2&3 fire each time the pistons come up to tdc, there is also a wasted spark

The firing order is 1243
One coil fires 1&4, the other 2&3

After reading thru all these posts, it appears he might have confused firing order with cylinder numbering order?

[KWICK]

After reading thru all these posts, it appears he might have confused firing order with cylinder numbering order?

Probably.

[kenthewrench]

The manual has cylinder "numbering" 1-2-4-3 and cylinder firing as 1-2-4-3. Then in the back of the book in the wiring diagram it shows left and right coils and which cylinder they are to go to. How much simpler can I put it fellas. I've said it again and again!!!!! The one who pushed me towards switching the wires and ultimately the solution to my problem was ZRXMitch. So he has the option of what he wants to do(he even talked with me via PM). So I'll wait for his reply via PM. As I said earlier thanks for the additional advise in some different thinking to try and solve it. All the best!!!!! Ken

[KWICK]

The book shows the cylinders numbers 1243?

That makes zero sense.
The shop manual you have needs to be burned if that is the case.

[kenthewrench]

The book shows the cylinders numbers 1243?

That makes zero sense.
The shop manual you have needs to be burned if that is the case.

Yup,thats what I kept trying to tell you guys. No not burned,just changed with a simple stroke of the pen and maybe a call to Clymer to make them aware.

[KWICK]

Yup,thats what I kept trying to tell you guys. No not burned,just changed with a simple stroke of the pen and maybe a call to Clymer to make them aware.

There are other misprints in a book that misses something as simple as a 1234 number sequence.

You are saying they numbered the cylinders 1243?
Or the firing order is 1243?

The coils will show the wires being numbered 1-4 and 2-3 and it may look weird when you look at the coil diagram, but 1234 is 1234

[kenthewrench]

There are other misprints in a book that misses something as simple as a 1234 number sequence.

You are saying they numbered the cylinders 1243?
Or the firing order is 1243?

The coils will show the wires being numbered 1-4 and 2-3 and it may look weird when you look at the coil diagram, but 1234 is 1234

BOTH numbered and firing order. I understand the 1-4 and 2-3 thing clearly,but when the numbered order from right to left states 1-2-4-3 it throws the whole thing off. I also understand the firing order of 1-2-4-3 in that it has them firing at the same time every other cyl to keep it balanced. Some screwy sh!t to say the least!!!!!!

[KWICK]

Aftermarket manuals are just guides...even the factory Kaw book has the 1100 oil drain plug torque wrong.

I always wondered why computer tech lines always ask: "Is your computer plugged in and turned on?"

I now know why.

I will start every tech session from now on with: "The cylinders are numbered 1234 left to right sitting on the bike, what order are your plug caps plugged in?" or something similar. This is the second time in about a month that this has been an issue.

[kenthewrench]

The computer thing is funny as hell,but also very true!!!!! I know they're only meant as a guide,but when the machine(car,bike,mower,etc...) comes in in a box or pc's its the only thing you got to go by sometimes UNLESS you've done a 100 back to back for easy reference in your head. Workin for Chrysler,Dodge,Jeep was like that for me. I could diagnose and fix'm blindfolded after time. Unfortunately having a full service shop working all makes and models of bikes I might do a string of Beemers,then some HD's then get a sportbike then 4 cruisers. Its always a flip of the coin what's on the other end of the phone or pulls up to the front door. Are you an instructor/teacher of some kind ? Your language says you might be...... Ken

[kenthewrench]

Just got the call from Doug(Moosemeat),he's bringin my ZRX1200 to me!!!!!! Yay!!!!!! He had to deal with DMV down here for a R title.ARGGGGGGG!!!!!!! I'll be official around here finally!!!!!

[Copyguy]

Note to all who own a 1986-2003 Kawi Connie----On page 56(of Clymer Kawasaki Concours 1986-2003 service manual) where it talks about cylinder firing order,engine rotation and the start of tuneup procedures is where this "wrong" information is written and pictured. I've changed it and I suggest all who own one do the same as to not get in the same rut as I did. Thanks----Ken

Page 56 (Tune Up section) to the Clymer manual, indeed, contains misinformation presenting the Firing Order as Cylinder Position - there is a diagram showing "Cylinder Position" "1 2 4 3" (shown as circles for each cylinder, with the number inside each circle). The text referencing the diagram states: "The cylinders are numbered 1 through 4, starting with the cylinder on the left side, as shown in Figure 1" (which diagram shows 1-2-4-3). "The cylinder firing order is 1-2-4-3." So, if one was to apply the firing order to the erroneous cylinder position diagram, and wired the spark plug wires accordingly, mayhem ensues, as, per page 280, "The coil on the left side fires the No. 1 and No. 4 cylinders; the right coil fires the No. 2 and No. 3 cylinders."

Hope this didn't affect your valve adjustment!

[KWICK]

Hope this didn't affect your valve adjustment!

...good point.
Quit chewing gum in the back