Race Vs Street Tires....

[KWICK]

"....Pirelli's street and DOT race tires should come up to temperature equally quickly and at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of a street tire."

Christoph Knoche, Pirelli North America Racing, as quoted in Sport Rider Riding Tips 2010, page 19

I have also seen Jim Allen, formerly with Dunlop Racing, quoted saying the same thing.

[Brian129]

really makes you wonder how much they actually ride there product.

yeah they come up to temp quick, when nailing apexes, bu stoplight to stoplight, really?

not me

[KWICK]

really makes you wonder how much they actually ride there product.

yeah they come up to temp quick, when nailing apexes, bu stoplight to stoplight, really?

not me

Seriously, my Michelin Power Races come up to temp almost instantly, and I've ridden on them down into the low thirties in driving rain with zero issues.

Two turns at Willow Springs on each side and I'm ready to go. I've also done track schools in the rain with incredible traction, even doing power wheelies on the access road with standing water.

It's an old wives' tale that race tires are rock-hard.

[Tacmedic]

What about heat cycles? Will they withstand several without using warmers?

[KWICK]

What about heat cycles? Will they withstand several without using warmers?

Depends on the brand.

Michelin make two Power Race tires.
Trackday and RACE.
The Trackday ones: Medium, Medium Soft and Soft, I've run down to the carcass with zero degradation of stick. I get two trackdays and 3500-4000 miles outta a new rear. You could buy these from any tire catalog.

Their Race ones: PR1, PR2, etc...PR stands for Pure Race...will only withstand so many heat cycles and then turn into a brick. You could only buy these with a racing license from their race tire vendors.

I buy takeoffs on eBay, the the trackday ones are really good. The race ones are good for a trackday and a thousand street miles, then they have no traction, even when hot on AZ streets.

Power Races are no longer available, but the trackday ones were marketed in Europe as sport street tires.


The old Dunlop 208GPs you could run to the cord with no issues.

Other tires you'll have varying reports with, but if a race tire is marketed for 10% street, 90% track, you'll be fine using them as street tires.

[Tacmedic]

Depends on the brand.

Michelin make two Power Race tires.
Trackday and RACE.
The Trackday ones: Medium, Medium Soft and Soft, I've run down to the carcass with zero degradation of stick. I get two trackdays and 3500-4000 miles outta a new rear. You could buy these from any tire catalog.

Their Race ones: PR1, PR2, etc...PR stands for Pure Race...will only withstand so many heat cycles and then turn into a brick. You could only buy these with a racing license from their race tire vendors.

I buy takeoffs on eBay, the the trackday ones are really good. The race ones are good for a trackday and a thousand street miles, then they have no traction, even when hot on AZ streets.

Power Races are no longer available, but the trackday ones were marketed in Europe as sport street tires.


The old Dunlop 208GPs you could run to the cord with no issues.

Other tires you'll have varying reports with, but if a race tire is marketed for 10% street, 90% track, you'll be fine using them as street tires.

I am very familiar with the Michelins and run the Power races onmy track bike. We put a set of Power One trackday tires on Gina's 600rr and can't sat enough good things about them. They are the stickiest tires I have ever seen and hold up well. They are expensive, but tires are a, "No skimp: item

[Ben Zeppa]

Seriously, my Michelin Power Races come up to temp almost instantly, and I've ridden on them down into the low thirties

Low thirties? You must be riding in your garage!

[KWICK]

Low thirties? You must be riding in your garage!

You were on that ride....

[Ben Zeppa]

You were on that ride....

Hello?, What?, your breaking up!

[bossracer]

So what's a good trackday tire these days? no tire warmers. An honest strip/street tire. No slick.

[KWICK]

Michelin Power One

[bossracer]

power ones it is. For the ZX7RR project. Thank you kindly.

[NB&SV]

I think that rumor got started from people getting used track tires that were already heat cycled out. Tire technology has advanced a long way. Maybe with old compound tires they'd stand a couple of heat cycles and be done, but not so much any more. There are also race tires that are designed to be hard, but those are normally for an endurance type race where they expect the tire to run hard laps until the bike is out of gas at least once.

Personally the way I ride doesn't make super sticky rubber reasonable. But, other than possibly wearing out quicker I wouldn't expect a problem running tires geared more at the track.

[zrx24]

"....Pirelli's street and DOT race tires should come up to temperature equally quickly and at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of a street tire."

Christoph Knoche, Pirelli North America Racing, as quoted in Sport Rider Riding Tips 2010, page 19

I have also seen Jim Allen, formerly with Dunlop Racing, quoted saying the same thing.

There are two VERY important things to understand about the above statements.

First, the terms "quickly" and "traction" are VERY relative.

And two, the manner in which tires are brought up to speed on the street and track can vary greatly. Pulling out of your driveway and riding a few blocks without applying any real load on the tire is quite different than pulling out onto a race track and immediately subjecting the tires to a multitude of loadings in a short period of time.

[KWICK]

There are two VERY important things to understand about the above statements.

First, the terms "quickly" and "traction" are VERY relative.

And two, the manner in which tires are brought up to speed on the street and track can vary greatly. Pulling out of your driveway and riding a few blocks without applying any real load on the tire is quite different than pulling out onto a race track and immediately subjecting the tires to a multitude of loadings in a short period of time.

"....at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of a street tire."

[zrx24]

"....at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of a street tire."

Again, "traction" is VERY relative.


There are morons that think they can pull out of their driveway and one block later can rail through an intersection knee down simply because they have "race" tires on their bike.


It don't work that way.

[zrx24]

I can also testify that I have indeed experienced times when a race compound tire DID NOT offer more traction than a street tire.

[DaddyDave]

Seriously, my Michelin Power Races come up to temp almost instantly, and I've ridden on them down into the low thirties in driving rain with zero issues.

Two turns at Willow Springs on each side and I'm ready to go. I've also done track schools in the rain with incredible traction, even doing power wheelies on the access road with standing water. It's an old wives' tale that race tires are rock-hard.

Careful Petey-san; I've seen so many cold tire crashes on the 1st lap, even as far as 2.5-3.5 laps in at Sears on cool/foggy days. One of them was a AMA long-term racer (Denny Doherty) & he bailed T5 second lap due to cold tires, it was a huge high-speed crash. I inherited 1st for a few turns in the headliner Open GP race until everyone got their jaws back in helmet & got back to racing!

Sadly I saw a rookie try a pass on me in practice T4 @ SP, washed the front & bailed (almost took me out 1st lap of practice.) After my practice I walked over to his pit & tried to stress the importance of letting tires warm up before going gonzo WFO, & they basically told me to "go away." Fine, good luck I muttered as I walked away...

In the first BIG race "Open Modified Production" an hour later same guy tried an inside pass on a guy just behind me going into T3 1st lap, lowsided/bailed, was run over, & died instantly of a broken neck. He was only 19 years old.

I feel really bad about this, & still wonder if I had gotten mean & yelled at the guy he may have lived. I feel so bad about this one, & it changed my mind forever about making sure tires are fully warmed up before going 10-10th's 1st few laps. Sad man.....

Save your life, & maybe someone else's, wait at least a few miles before hammering it, or you may end up like me, sad forever wondering if I could have saved someone had I been a little harder/stronger in my constructive criticism. Cold tires kill, believe it.

[KWICK]

A cold race tire will not have as much stick as a warmed up one...

BUT

A cold race tire will have more grip than a cold street tire.

[zrx24]

BUT

A cold race tire will have more grip than a cold street tire.

Nope. Not always the case. I just finished rebuilding my Rex as a result of someone falling due to cold race tires, when my street tires had plenty of stick carrying the same speed into that particular turn after the exact same distance traveled during that first lap on the track.


Here's the catch. Some race tires take longer to warm up than some street tires. True story.

[zrx24]

For this particular case, I would without hesitation throw my Rex into the first turn on those particular cold street tires at a faster speed than I would with the race tires involved. In this particular case, the street tires provided more cold stick than the cold race tires.

Rubber is a really weird thing at times.

[zrx24]

There are other factors at play as well that affect traction, such as carcass flexibility when cold versus warm.

[KWICK]

"....Pirelli's street and DOT race tires should come up to temperature equally quickly and at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of a street tire."

Christoph Knoche, Pirelli North America Racing, as quoted in Sport Rider Riding Tips 2010, page 19

...I would still tend to think the above guy knows poop about tires.

[zrx24]

Something else to realize, Pete.


Only street tires are designed to operate reasonably well when cold. A race tire is never intended to function well when cold.

[Ca Pete]

Nope. Not always the case. I just finished rebuilding my Rex as a result of someone falling due to cold race tires, when my street tires had plenty of stick carrying the same speed into that particular turn after the exact same distance traveled during that first lap on the track.


Here's the catch. Some race tires take longer to warm up than some street tires. True story.

Dunlop race tires cold are slicker than snot. True story II

[zrx24]

...I would still tend to think the above guy knows poop about tires.

Not arguing that. I'm arguing your very blanket statement, that I know as worded is just simply not true. Way too many factors involved to blanket a statement of that sort.


You are also overlooking the term "should" in the quote you're throwing out. "Should" does not equate to "race tires always stick better during the first out lap when compared to street tires."

[zrx24]

My "sticky" street tires WILL provide better cold traction than my endurance compound race tires. True story III.

[Ca Pete]

If you worked for a tire company, would you publically admit that their race tire is slick till it warms up?


If you did, you wouldn't have a job for long.

[DaddyDave]

please folks, be -careful- on ANY tire when cold...please!

[knedgr]

oh sure....next you'll be telling us that you get more mileage out of a stickier race tire than you do a standard street tire or sport touring tire.