radiator bleeding

[kennyz]

This may or may not be a stupid question,but bleeding the cooling system usins the two bleeder screws,is the motor supposed to be running or not and should the cap be on or off?

[Trigrnzrx]

Refill till full (not Running) open the bleeder screw at the water pump, when coolent runs out close it.
Put the cap back on but refill to top off first.
Start and let run for a cycle(wait till the fans on ) then shut off and open bleeder valve at the cap, Slowly air and coolent pumps out, Be careful coolents hot and it shoots straight up.

[kennyz]

Thanks,the service manual is very vague about the whole procedure.

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Almost got it....

Take off rad cap, completely remove the t-stat bleader screw. Fill system until you get a solid stream out of bleader hole. Then blead water pump. Top off collant, reinstall bleader screw, then ride your bike with your mind at ease.

The bleader screw is a simple device, it allows air to escape from the backside of the t-stat. With it closed, you will create a large air pocket behind the t-stat, but once you open it while filling it, the system will be capable of removing every single air bubble (other than the water pump) easily by simply filling it. No worries afterward, throw the cap and ride with confidence.

[kennyz]

So this is all done without starting up the motor?

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

yup

[scottymac]

Dragging this oldie up for clarification....

So is this procedure unecessary then?

http://www.zrxoa.org/webpages/techin...ingSystem.html

I just did it the way Ryan described and it seems like a really simple method that makes sense. I'm wondering why it's necessary to run the motor at all?

Thanks for the help!

Scott

[nasaman33]

My question is, Do I have to remove the fuel tank when performing this procedure? It is not that clear

[Perko]

Originally posted by nasaman33
My question is, Do I have to remove the fuel tank when performing this procedure? It is not that clear

Yes.

SS

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by nasaman33
My question is, Do I have to remove the fuel tank when performing this procedure? It is not that clear

considering the radiator cap is under the tank, I don't see how you're going to get around pulling the tank.

[dano]

What are the indicators, if any, that there might be an airpocket somewhere in the cooling system?

[klr_rider]

Depending on your definition of OFF - You have to pull the two screws off the back and slide the tank 4-6 inches back. On mine I don't have to remove fuel lines or vent lines....

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by dano
What are the indicators, if any, that there might be an airpocket somewhere in the cooling system?

fan won't come on, temp light comes on.

actually, temp light comes on, with or without the fan....depends on the size of the air pocket on whether the fan still works or not, but you can trust the temp light....if its on, you got an air pocket (or the fan circuit is INOP and you're ABOUT to have an air pocket )

[dano]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob ZRX
fan won't come on, temp light comes on.

actually, temp light comes on, with or without the fan....depends on the size of the air pocket on whether the fan still works or not, but you can trust the temp light....if its on, you got an air pocket (or the fan circuit is INOP and you're ABOUT to have an air pocket )

Thanks.....good to know.

The reason I asked....is that when I installed the MUZZY aluminum rad. fan, it was painfully obvious to me, that I'd have to at least, disconnect the rad. hoses, and drain some coolant, in order to pull the rad. far enough away from the frame, to access the fan blade.

I did so w/o problem, other than making a big mess with some spilled coolant.

When I went to button things back up, and when it was time to refill the cooling system, I used a siphon hose to SLOWLY add the coolant back.

After all was said and done, and after I verified the proper coolant level, I went for a ride and all was good to go. I didn't mess with any of the bleeder screws.

I've since put about another 100 miles or so on it, and no temp light has come on yet.

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

if you want to be sure of it after you do any coolant work. Let the bike idle for 10 minutes or so, until the fan comes on. If the fan comes on and the light doesn't, you know you're fine.

small air pockets aren't a big deal, the system will blead itself of small pockets, its when you have a big enough pocket that it blocks coolant from getting to t-stat thermal coil that problems happen.

its more obvious when you have an actual temp gauge, but its still the same thing.

[nasaman33]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob ZRX
considering the radiator cap is under the tank, I don't see how you're going to get around pulling the tank.

OK..Now it is clear enough..thanks

[ZRX Mitch]

Louis,

It isn't "rocket science", you can handle it.

[nikos]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob ZRX
if you want to be sure of it after you do any coolant work. Let the bike idle for 10 minutes or so, until the fan comes on. If the fan comes on and the light doesn't, you know you're fine.

small air pockets aren't a big deal, the system will blead itself of small pockets, its when you have a big enough pocket that it blocks coolant from getting to t-stat thermal coil that problems happen.

its more obvious when you have an actual temp gauge, but its still the same thing.

Which one is the water pump bleeder?

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by nikos
Which one is the water pump bleeder?

A picture is worth a thousand words....its #2 on the schematic.

http://www.zrxoa.org/webpages/techin...ingSystem.html

[steve j]

Not true to those who think you can bleed it without running it. I got my 99' brand new in nov of 98'. mine was the first in the usa and several people that bought them after me from different dealers brought them back for overheating problems-air pockets. Those dealers did the routine spoke of earlier by just opening the cap then loosening the drain screw at the water pump until solid fluid ran out then filling the top with the bleeder loose until some shot out. They still had overheating issues. Now I do not know where everone lives but it gets hotter than hell here in Texas. I was able to watch my dealer service my bike and the tech explained why to do all the above plus fire it up with a remote fuel tank, cap on to build up pressure then once at operating temp or when fan came on crack the bleeder using a piece of rubber hose just like you would when bleeding the brakes into a 2 liter soda bottle the air and fluid came out. after about the 3rd time no air just fluid. The purpose of doing it that way is the system is pressurized and since it operates that way it makes sense to bleed it that way and under pressure you will get the air out. I am running a 02' ZX6R instrument pod that has a built in lcd temp readout, had to swap the overtemp switch at the t-stat housing for a temp sensor off of the 6R. I can assure you there is a difference in the engine temp if you do not bleed this way. In this inferno I usually dump my coolant at beginning of spring and run either royal purple purple ice or red line water wetter with distilled water no antifreeze and see about 20 degree temp drop. it is interesting with the temp gauge I can see this bike does real well while moving staying right at the 180 t-stat setting. It will actually go up and down some as the t-stat cycles. Once you get in stop and go like here in DFW area it runs up in the 200 range with the fan being the only thing keeping you from meltdown.

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by steve j
Not true to those who think you can bleed it without running it.

I beg to differ......I would bet that no one has bled their ZRX more times than me.....I've had my radiator off more times than I could possibly count. I have never once bled the system by running it. Ever. Never had a problem. If you can't get the air out before running it, then you need to change your proceedure.

I have a temp gauge on my bike, when done correctly, there is no temp change whatsoever.

[steve j]

Well uncle bob just know what the correct procedure is the tech guys at the shop are trained in and that was it. bet you don't have summer time heat up there like we do here and down here it will make a difference on the engine temp it is a fact.

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by steve j
Well uncle bob just know what the correct procedure is the tech guys at the shop are trained in and that was it. bet you don't have summer time heat up there like we do here and down here it will make a difference on the engine temp it is a fact.

I was a kawi tech for 5 years...not like that really means anything.

Believe who you will. As long as you feel warm and fuzzy when you're done, and there's no air in the system when you're done.

the outside temps have absolutely nothing to do with it. Air in the system will cause the system to overheat even if its -20 degrees out. If you have a very tiny air pocket in the system, it will self-bleed itself after the first heat cycle.

[scottymac]

I ended up doing mine exactly as Ryan described and it's been just fine.

FWIW anyway...

[steve j]

What ever floats your boat uncle bob. I know how the techs at my shop were trained on bleeding and I know it makes a difference on mine as the temp gauge proves it but you will never get me to believe outside air temp has nothing to do with it....hogwash. As a HVAC tech ambient air temp has a lot to do with heat transfer. That is why you do not see a lot of heat pumps up north, once the outside air temp hits 32 degrees f you cannot extract anymore heat from the air to use a heat pump and it goes into emergency heat mode which is back to the strip heaters. The same is true for summer time, if your ambient air temp gets to high it will not allow good heat transfer for your air conditioning. Same principal applies as the radiator is still just a heat exchanger. I had a bad temp light a year and a half ago and it never came on even though a bad cap/t-stat neck allowed the system to dump half my coolant. because it was winter time here and ambient temps were 40-50 degrees the bike never actually overheated and the fan never came on and it was working properly. You cannot change the laws of physics.

[scottymac]

Fueling the fire a bit here but.....


Isn't an air pocket in the system a physical restriction to the coolant flow? So why would ambient temperature effect that? I mean, it seems like if there's an air pocket when it's 90 F out, that same pocket would exist at 32 F outside.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, but I just don't understand what an air pocket in the system and the efficiency of the radiator as a heat exchanger due to ambient temperature have anything to do with each other.

Eh, whatever though I guess. Mine doesn't overheat, so as far as I'm concerned, all's well that ends well.

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by steve j
What ever floats your boat uncle bob. I know how the techs at my shop were trained on bleeding and I know it makes a difference on mine as the temp gauge proves it but you will never get me to believe outside air temp has nothing to do with it....hogwash. As a HVAC tech ambient air temp has a lot to do with heat transfer. That is why you do not see a lot of heat pumps up north, once the outside air temp hits 32 degrees f you cannot extract anymore heat from the air to use a heat pump and it goes into emergency heat mode which is back to the strip heaters. The same is true for summer time, if your ambient air temp gets to high it will not allow good heat transfer for your air conditioning. Same principal applies as the radiator is still just a heat exchanger. I had a bad temp light a year and a half ago and it never came on even though a bad cap/t-stat neck allowed the system to dump half my coolant. because it was winter time here and ambient temps were 40-50 degrees the bike never actually overheated and the fan never came on and it was working properly. You cannot change the laws of physics.

I don't know why you're getting so upset, but I'll answer your basic question and ignore all the silly comments, although I always find it amusing when someone feels the need to belittle someone elses abilities when they themselves show their lack of knowledge, but I digress....And please, querry your "expert kawasaki mechanic" about his "training" and his "certification". The only kawi cert that I'm aware of is MMI, which is the worst school that I know of. Only other "certificates" you can get is for Kawasaki update classes, which are absolutely useless classes where they basically tell you about the new models coming out. But I guess I don't know much about that either. Just cause some guy at a shop follows the manual doesn't make him that special. IMO, of course.

The reason an air pocket causes an engine to over heat is because it always collects at the t-stat. When there is air surrounding the tstat, it will not function. When the tstat doesn't function, there is no coolant flow through the radiator, and the system will quickly boil.

If your temp light wasn't working and your fan wasn't working, then you either had two unrelated problems (the circuits for those two items are completely seperate) or you had a lot of air in the sustem, enough to cause both sensors to sit in an air pocket. The question you need to answer at that point is WHY is there that much air in the system.....cause that is the root of the problem, not the air itself.

There is also different degree's of it. As I said, a small amount of air in the system will not cause any problem, because it doesn't prevent the tstat from functioning, and as I already stated, assuming everything is working properly, the air will be self-bled out through the reservoir tank after very few, if only one, heat cycle.

I don't just know some guy that told me this stuff.....I actually diagnose coolant systems, among many many other things on all types of vehicles, every single day.

[KWICK]

Havin' a rough time there Unkle KaBoom?....

[Uncle Bob ZRX]

Originally posted by KWICK
Havin' a rough time there Unkle KaBoom?....

yah, I am....could you help me out here kwick and tell them how to properly diagnose a coolant system?

[steve j]

I'm not trying to slam anyone I love all the different opinions/suggestions I can get, thats how I have learned most things in life. I do know I would have melted mine down had it not been winter here and riding my bike with probably a quart of coolant in the whole system. You are right there was a whopping big air pocket in this case from overtemp sensor at t-stat housing down to the rad fan sensor and is probably why it did not come on. The bike was ok thank god after I heard the gurgling sound and found my overflow full but rad near empty. that overflow tank probably came with the overflow hose barb sealed shut, like it came out of the mold that way. after opening that up is when I got all the coolant running non-stop into the tank once warmed up. finally caught it when looking closer at the t-stat housing neck where cap seals, like a piece missing letting the juice go straight to overflow tank. bikes been good since fix and I appreciate having the temp gauge now. Just ordered rotors all the way around, had another warp. bike has 35k on it and they are at the service limit (thin) anyway. first time to put a chain on it too, still not bad for 35k. Thanks for input uncle bob and I might need some advice on that turbo.....been thinking of doing that for a while.