1224 Ticking Sound

[Hawk1]

Just fired up my Rex after installing 1224 with ZZR cams & Ivan’s block of plates. Plates went on the rubber gaskets so I did not use the gaskets witch came with the kit.
New exhaust gaskets. Valve adjust. Swapped out two shims. Noticed when installing shims that they where not 9.48. One measured 9.46 and another 9.51. Cams degree 104.5 & 105.5.

Some Ticking Sound when started up first time. Don’t know where it comes from. The sound was not there before. Any advice would be great? Other than that she runs great..

Thanks.

[Rexter]

listen close to find the area....maybe exhaust leak?

use a screwdiver as a stethesope and place in various positions on the head and block to locate the noise.

mine did the exact same thing and ended up being a bad cam chain tensioner.....never had a noise til i did the 1224

[cosmojoe]

Recheck your cam degreeing, run stock valve timing to check.

[KWICK]

Did you reinstall the reed valves under the Ivan's plates? You need to.

[ZrexRich]

I'd say check the block off plates first and use the new gaskets. Also check to see if the exhaust manifold mounting nuts are snug. If the ticking is coming from the left side it's likely the tensioner as Rexter mentioned.

[Hawk1]

I only replaced the reed valves cover with Ivan’s block off plates. So the read valve is still there. Or is it something I don’t understand? I did use the rubber gaskets witch where on the
reed valves cover. My bike has only 10K on the clock and the cam chain tensioner is in very good condition.
But there much is something wrong with the reed valves like you mention kwick and ZrxRich. I can’t think on anything else. I will replace plates with the stock cover/plates and see if the tickling sound disappears.

The tickling sound, sounds like some valve noises, but valve clearness are all in spec...

Will keep you posted

Thanks all for your input,

[Hawk1]

Took the Ivan’s block off plates off witch I just installed and used the gasket witch came with the plates. I thought that the rubber gasket under the stock plates would do.
Took the valve reeds out from the valve cover and cleaned them and put them back in. I did not touch the valve reeds when doing the 1224 at first. No need? Well there is no exhaust leak and there seems to be ok with the valve reeds so there is some small ticking sound still witch weren’t there before rebuild.
But only asking if it is normal that she runs rougher / ticking sound when after installing 1224? Maybe she is rougher / ticking on idle after installing ZZR cams and 1224 kit?
Forgot to mention that I am using APE adjustable cam sprocket.
I have not been able to take her for test ride yet. Just like to clear this out before I do so I don’t have to worry when I take her out for a ride!!

Thanks in advance for your help,

[Rexter]

mine gave me fits for 2 months...thought i had piston slap, or an exhaust leak, or loose valve clearances, or a spit shim.... changed exhaust gaskets 2 times, checked the valve adjustment once, everything was good...listened with a screwdriver and couldn't hear any noises...everything purred. took out the factory cam chain adjuster, looked fine, worked fine.. re-installed adjuster...took bike back to builder( 200 miles one way) started it and no noise he was thinkin "yeah, right"...... i said" i didn't drive all the way up here for nothing" so we checked the valve adjustment again, pulled the cam chain adjuster, everything good...put it back together, and heard the ticking.. ken says"adjuster is bad", so we installed an APE manual adjuster, and life is good


i thought the noise was in the head, too.....the cam chain tunnel was letting the noise travel, i guess

[krexken]

That was weird. I wouldn't say the adjuster was exactly bad, just simply lacked enough force to get the chain tight enough.

Make sure the rubber thingy that rubs, tensions the chain is free at it's pivot. It may be possible to assemble it incorrectly and have it bind at the pivot rendering the tensioner less effective.

[KWICK]

Originally posted by krexken
That was weird. I wouldn't say the adjuster was exactly bad, just simply lacked enough force to get the chain tight enough.

Make sure the rubber thingy that rubs, tensions the chain is free at it's pivot. It may be possible to assemble it incorrectly and have it bind at the pivot rendering the tensioner less effective.

There should be a washer on both sides of the sleeve that anchors the base of the rear tensioner. Many leave it out by accident.

[Hawk1]

Maybe the cam chain tensioner needs another one tooth click! I will check on the cam chain tensioner tonight... Is there any other way than put the screwdriver or similar tool inside the tensioner and push one clik..?
Other than that everything seems to be fine. I can not think of any witch has gone wrong at the assembly? If the cam chain tensioner is ok then I will take the Z-Rex out for a ride... and let it be...!

What about the fuel octane? Need maybe 98 RON octane gasolines? Running on RON 95. What octane gasoline are you running on yours 1224 with ZZR cams?



Thanks all for your help,

[KWICK]

With a 12.5:1 motor you should be running name brand Premium gas.

[sillyhillbilly]

take the adjustable cams sprokets out, and replace with oem ones to make sure its not valves ticking each other, I havent seen those numbers used in the manner you described

[Hawk1]

I thought about that when working on the bike... I don’t believe it, don’t believe it..æææææææ
Are any 1224 with Cams degree with one deg different between Inn & Out?
I was sure that 1’ where enough…? And also I thought zzr cams where degree even would be ok for the valves?

Could you pointed out any I could contact who would give me some info facts if this could be the case before I start again…….. Maybe Dale Walker or?....Well now me sleep is spoiled..

[KWICK]

A degree or three won't make a difference, BUT, you might have done the degreeing incorrectly, that is why they are tellin' you to put the stock sprockets back on.

...or, hold it closer to the monitor and let me take a listen to it

[Rexter]

Originally posted by krexken
That was weird. I wouldn't say the adjuster was exactly bad, just simply lacked enough force to get the chain tight enough.

Make sure the rubber thingy that rubs, tensions the chain is free at it's pivot. It may be possible to assemble it incorrectly and have it bind at the pivot rendering the tensioner less effective.

God speaks!!! (not being a smart-ass)

ken, this motor runs sooooooooo good. thanks

[sillyhillbilly]

Originally posted by Hawk1
I thought about that when working on the bike... I don’t believe it, don’t believe it..æææææææ
Are any 1224 with Cams degree with one deg different between Inn & Out?
I was sure that 1’ where enough…? And also I thought zzr cams where degree even would be ok for the valves?

Could you pointed out any I could contact who would give me some info facts if this could be the case before I start again…….. Maybe Dale Walker or?....Well now me sleep is spoiled..

from where did you get these numbers?
why did you decide to use them? what was the purpose of so close of cam timing? torque? top end?
who convinced you to use them?
lastly make sure you dont have an rocker arm thats behind the cam and not under it
( dont ask )

[KWICK]

And be SURE all shims are in place.

[Tealdo]

Originally posted by KWICK
And be SURE all shims are in place.

I have seen shims cocked in the retainer. This would lead to one of two scenarios.
1. When the shim seats, you will have a LOT of slop causing a tick. OR...
2. The shim may have been spit out.. causing a tick.

[Hawk1]

I was looking for the most torque I could get and I am using full “torque” exhaust .......
I where aiming at 104 & 106 but ended with those numbers witch I thought where ok?
I am quite sure kwick that those are the numbers and I did degree correctly. I rechecked those number ones or twice. Those numbers where mine…and if I have messed up what a F. Well I though this was complete, but…

[KWICK]

I've never told anyone to run 104-106.
You have me corn-fused with someone else.

But, 104-106 should not make any ticking sounds if you really have to there.

How were you turning the motor over? I think I know your problem....

edit:

I SEE...do NOT turn the motor by the same stuff that holds the degree wheel!!!!
The degree wheel will move approx 5 degrees and you won't even be close!
Turn by the counterhaft nut in 5th gear.

There is ALL kinds of SLOP in that big nut/roll pin setup.

Do-Over.

[Hawk1]

No No kwik. I did not say that those numbers where yours ….Those numbers are mine.

I did use the rear wheel to turn her over and in fifth. This photo is taken just before I started.

I did two shims. I notice that one where 9.46 and she dropped in easy, but the other where 9.51 and she where more difficult to use. I had to use small heat on the seat to drop her in. Adjust again and everything looks fine when done. Got the shims from Kawasaki dealer witch he swapped for the used ones. Better measuring diameter before leaving the shop?

I will do it again just to be sure.........

[KWICK]

Get that wrench outta the pic!

You cannot turn the motor smooth enough by the rear tire to degree the cams.

You NEED to turn it by the counter shaft sprocket nut, (or by the clutch end of the crank.)
You also need to find TDC with a positive stop, do not trust the factory marks...and, to do that you need to turn the motor both ways, it's almost impossible to do that accurately with the rear wheel. The wrench where you have it is just plain wrong...It'll mess your figures up.

And, yes, I know, Dale Walker shows it that way...on this motor it is wrong.

[Hawk1]

Thanks kwik. I will take a look at those numbers again....

Thanks a lot for your help.

[KWICK]

Originally posted by Hawk1
Thanks kwik. I will take a look at those numbers again....

Thanks a lot for your help.

[cosmojoe]

Hawk1, KWICK and all the others are way better mechanics than me, but a basic question: are you reading the dial indicator correctly and doing the math properly? I'm not saying I messed it up the first time I did it, but I messed it up the first time I did it. My bike had a rythmic tick, I replace the adjustable cam gears with the stock timing gears and it ran great. I figured out what I did wrong, did it right and the bikes run great for 15K (so far). Not saying this is your problem, but it's a simple check. Good luck.

[KWICK]

I had a prob with degreeing stock cams in a ZRX. I finally found out about the WebCams and SportRider's articles on low duration cam timing and neg vs pos...anyway, to figure it out I put the stock sprockets back like Cosmo says and then took an automatic centerpunch and marked the cams and the head so I had reference points when I put the slotted sprockets back on. Then, the problem was obvious.

[Hawk1]

From where do you think this small ticking sound comes from? Just like a small valve tick.
I did replace two shims, one Ex and other at Inn. Both where to tight so I did increase the clearness All measured again and Valve clearness where as it should be…within spec.

Well I have to recheck everything again……….What shall I look for other than adjust cam numbers and shims?

Maybe those lines will help others witch will follow …? I will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[Hawk1]

1224 Finally done. But I don’t know where the smal tickling sound came from. Now it’s gone and she sounds great
Did the cams degreeing again and inspected the reed valves again and used the gasket witch came with the covers. Checked loose valve clearances witch where ok. Checked if the chain where tight. Think the tickling came from the cam chain.
Cams degree 104.5 & 105.5 and left it like that. Will she how she runs on those numbers. Any other numbers if you are looking for the torque and up? Or any against using those numbers witch I am using?

I will she how she runs on #110 and #112 mains and pilot #32 on all four from mama Kawasaki. Part. No: 92064-1024 and made for the ZRX and using Ivan’s needles. I never heard anyone use the #32 pilots with Ivan´s, but mine has always been running rich with Ivan’s kit and especially on the #35 pilots so…lean her down will not hurt? Needle in third grove with all washers on top to begin with. Had the fuel / air screws 2.5 to 2.75 out, but had to increase ¼ to ½ turns out now.
Hardly had to use the choke until now when I fired her up from cold… And no gas smelling from the exhaust like before. Have 12 x 9.5mm holes in the stock airbox / filter. Well I can always close some of them if I need it. Now my “1224S” is ready for test ride Will take it easy on her to start with.
Well I think this is the only one “S” with 1224 and ZZR cams? I have not heard of any other around in Europe so....?

Sorry for the spelling or my English in my post. I’m not an expert in languages. And somtimes to many cold ones....

Any advise would be helpful and you have tried it all.

Thanks you all for your help and advice,

Middle of the night here and am tired after working on my "S" and few beers afterwards.
Good night.

Ps: I need two new stickers? (1224S) Any one?

[Twobuckchuck]

WTF kind of ending is this? How's the bike run?